SPEAKER_03 0:00

It was started in Beverly Hills by a rabbi.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

Oh. Beverly Hills Rabbi?

SPEAKER_01 0:06

Yeah, Beverly Hills Rabbi is at a movie.

SPEAKER_03 0:09

Is that a movie?

SPEAKER_01 0:11

I'd like it to be one of the apps.

SPEAKER_03 0:16

Welcome to another episode of Smells Like Humans. This is the podcast where we explore the curious things that people do, the very human things that grab our attention and cause us to wonder what and why. I'm Ross, your host, and today my guests are the incredible, amazing, and always fun human Hannah.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Hello. And we here I am.

SPEAKER_03 0:46

And we are extra psyched to have the potentially official therapist of our podcast, the delightful Tracy. Hello, Tracy.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Hello.

SPEAKER_03 0:56

The unofficial official therapist.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 0:59

And welcome everyone. Friends, help us grow the show. You know how to do that. Share it with people you think will like it. We'll talk about other things you can do at the end, but let's get to it. We know that humans, well, you know, they like to meet, they like to date, they like to hook up, they like to do all the things. And we know for some, maybe most, it's hard to meet people. So what do we do? We rely on apps as a supplement to our normal dating activity, or as the main or only way we meet people. And the younger you are, the more likely you are to meet people using apps. So for a lot of humans, though, dating apps don't work, or they're unsatisfying, or they're frustrating, or they end up making them feel bad or objectified, or all the things. And we know that we all know people, maybe even people in this room, who say, Oh, but I met my beautiful partner through an app. Um, but it turns out that's only true on average for about 12% of people that are dating. Yeah. There's not so we all know people who have that story.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

I'd say that checks out in my personal experience. About 12% of the people that I have met through online dating. I'm like, you, all right, this could be cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

12%. That's a lot of misses. Yeah. And it's a lot of time invested in scrolling through profiles and actually going on meetups with people and all of that. Um Q, speed dating. Speed dating. So speed dating was a thing that started in 1998 and sort of went away. Not completely, but it sort of went away when it feels very 1998. When you even say the word speed dating, I'm like, yeah. It was started in Beverly Hills by a rabbi.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Oh. Beverly Hills Rabbi?

SPEAKER_03 2:50

Yeah, Beverly Hills Rabbi is at a movie movie. Is that a movie?

SPEAKER_01 2:55

I'd like it to be one of the apps. I'd get on that one. Yeah. We all want that. Who doesn't want that?

SPEAKER_03 3:05

No, no, no. It's time for Beverly Hills Rabbi. So uh speed dating. Uh that's when you meet another human person for a short period of time.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

In person.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

In person for about five to seven minutes. I'm sure they've done some online, but but basically the traditional sense, you meet them in person, and then the time is up, then there's a rotation, and new people come and meet, and then there's like 10 to 20 pairs, and by the time the night's over, you've had a chance to spend five minutes with everybody who showed up.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:38

And uh then at that point, you're usually asked to say privately who are you interested in. If those people also said privately that they're interested in you, then the host of the thing, whoever's putting this on, will share the personal information so you can contact them.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

The very adult version of a note in a locker saying, Do you like me? Yes, circle yes or no.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

That's what it is.

SPEAKER_00 4:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

It's a it speed dating provides an opportunity to meet prospective dates face to face and engage in a real conversation for a very short period of time. So it takes away a lot of the issues that occur when you're shopping online for a potential partner.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

We should bring this back.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

Well, that's the thing, it's coming back.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Excellent.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

It makes sense for a lot of reasons, I think.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

It's also fun to go out. You can have a drink if you want, usually at these places. Um it's a regulated environment, safe, so you're you're there with their safety and numbers and all that stuff. And you're actually having a real experience rather than something that you know you have no idea if this is a real person that you're interacting with in an app or if this is a recent picture. Right. Or all the things they said, are they actually true? Here you get a chance to do that. And recently, oh, not so recently, but in the last several years, there was a University of Pennsylvania study that showed that most people gauge attraction in three seconds. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Uh, that's so validating to do so validating. How come? Because I have been quite recently in the last like year or so of my life, dating regularly. It is a hobby for me. Right-huh. And I will tell my friends, I will tell people, and I often get a like, uh, sort of like like people will balk at at this statement, but I often know in the first minute. Oh, yeah. I often know that there are times, certainly there are like t experiences I've had that are a little bit more complicated, but I often I'll know just in the energy of walking up on the sidewalk and making eye contact with this person. Oh, this is a yay or a nay. Right. More often than not, I'll know within the first 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

I am right there with you. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

So like so when I hear speed dating and I'm saying, oh, five minutes with a person, oh, generally that's all I need. And are we in an environment that actually permits that?

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Great. Same. Yeah. And I don't have to do 45 minutes or another hour of being like, I guess this is fine.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

Uh-huh. And how do I gracefully exit this date and still and not like have to be like, oh, well, no, I'm not going to be calling you. No, I'm not going to be texting you, or like, no, this is enough. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 6:12

It's a lot of effort to go into going on actual dates and imagine with a speed dating setup, you can meet sometimes 10, 12 people in an evening. Just think how much time you'd have to invest.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

It's efficient. I like that.

SPEAKER_03 6:24

It's very efficient. And initially, when the issue is physical attraction and then some kind of basic indicators of chemistry, you can get that pretty quickly. Clearly, there's going to be a lot more to learn about somebody.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

And but first blush, yes, please.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

But you've just uh uh theoretically you've just saved a ton of time for everyone by doing it this way, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:45

So I think so there's clear consensus around this table that that is of interest. I think maybe we should have a smells like humans speed dating session where you know we have a microphone for somebody and we just bring people in for an hour. I would happily be the guinea pig in this scenario. We got a microphone next to me, uh huh. Five-minute conversation with a string of people coming in to meet me, maybe to meet Ross. I could we could speed date here. I think it would be super fun.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

It would certainly uh change the nature of this show directly.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Um for Patreon subscribers, it smells like humans speed dating edition.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

Yeah, the speed dating edition. So um recently, the reason this popped into my brain is that I was reading an article that says speed dating. Wow, speed dating is making a comeback, especially in bigger cities like New York. So uh companies are saying, hey, you're tired of the apps, it's not satisfying, you're tired of looking at the same old thing. Why don't you meet people in person? And so they're trying to create a a little sort of higher end version of the traditional speed dating experience. So you pay a little extra money, but you go to a nice place, and people have all been selected with care. And they've been vetted, there's background checks, so they've been selected with some kind of care. They just didn't show up at the door with four dollars.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

And they're fish.

SPEAKER_03 8:11

And a fish, right? And so, um, so so this is a thing that you know, there's several companies, and some are focusing trying to make it more broader than just a straight cis experience. So there's diversity in the room, like there's all kinds of people with all kinds of orientations and interests, so it's it's a much more diversified experience, and and so it's really expanding. And so my first question is has either of you ever been part of a speed dating experience? No, I have. I went on two.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Go on. I I'll say I'll I will say that my dating experience feels like speed dating. Oh, same, but it is not speed dating proper. So I'm glad that we have a mix here. Ross, you've actually speed dating.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

I've done it twice.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Has it been recently? Was it when you were a young man? What when was this?

SPEAKER_03 9:02

Yeah, wow. When it was when you were a young man.

SPEAKER_00 9:05

I didn't say you were not still a young man, but you know, like 20-year-old Ross, 30-year-old Ross. You know, you're not 30 anymore.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

It's part of it. So um, I'm kidding, of course. No. Um, so um, yes. So, no, this was uh when I first moved to Portland, Oregon, uh, which is where we are at this very moment, I didn't know many souls. And so I said, well, this is one way to meet people. Yeah. And so I went to uh some kind of advertised meetup for speed dating at a local restaurant. And uh I went to it and it was actually pretty fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

It was it sounds fun. It sounds fun to me.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Am I right in saying that we're all extroverts in some such way?

SPEAKER_01 9:51

I was just thinking the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Yeah, three extroverts around a table talking about speed dating. It would, it's a very different experience, but I think all of us are like, yeah, yeah, that sounds fun. I'd do that. Yeah, yeah. When some listeners are like, that sounds like my personal version of hell. Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:05

Yeah. Um well they they're organized differently. Like some of the ones I'm reading about now, they they try to take the awkwardness out of it where there's a fish bowl. Is it possible? Well, they to put a fishbowl in the middle of the table and there's fish in it. No, there's a fishbowl in the middle of the table, and inside are pre-arranged questions. Oh, sure. So you just pull out and you ask the person a question and then ask the last time you cried and why.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

What's your attachment style?

SPEAKER_03 10:30

Yeah, what is your speed dating style? How long is your rap sheet? So, yeah, so they try to make it a little more fun and friendly that way. Um, so I went to one, it was actually worked pretty well. I did meet somebody and we went out on a couple dates after.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Um, the then I went again and thinking, like, well, that was kind of fun, and I met somebody, so I'm gonna try it again. And that one was no good. No. Yeah, and it was just a matter of just there was just uh a weirdness in the room that night. But the things that really that bothered me about it was it wasn't a private event. So there were people around watching and pointing and like raiding and laughing in the background because they're like, oh, look, oh, he doesn't go with her.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

That takes some energy, rude.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

Yeah, that made it a little less fun. That would make it less fun, but other than that, it was kind of fun, and especially one of these things, and you some of them are kind of expensive where I think they range from $20 all the way up to $150.

SPEAKER_01 11:32

I'd pay $150 for that.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

Well, I think it's kind of like it depends. It's a it's a it's a gatekeeping device. It's kind of like, are you really serious or are you just coming along to goof around? Like, are you really interested? And that to me, it's like, yeah, if you're willing to put down, you know, somewhere between 20 and 100 bucks, you probably are actually I am invested. Yeah, you want something to happen. Um, so uh I like that. I liked it you get to see the person in person, yes, and feel their energy. Yes, yes, that is so important, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Because you can't feel the energy off because I'm like, can we just meet for coffee so that I can like in 20 minutes be like, this is not it? Or yes, I'd like to go out again.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

I move as quickly as possible from where we've matched, we have said we've greeted each other in with from within the app to at that point. That's all I want for the app at that point, and then I and then I would like a so which neighborhood you in? Should we get some coffee? You want to take a walk? Exactly. Yes, same. And I do not use, and this is different for people. Some people do want to have the sort of communicative like runway of we're gonna text for a couple weeks and get to know each other. I can't do it. I don't want it. More, I think it's mu I think that attitude is much more common than we think, and I think that that attitude just needs to be normalized. That like, oh, I make this app work for me. Yes, I'm not using this because I love my phone and I love texting and I love disembodied communication. No, I'm using this to just make my make your acquaintance. Yes. And yeah, let's grab coffee halfway between our houses on Saturday.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

Yeah, that's how I want to do it. But I've also heard people say, well, I've heard people directly, because I'll say that to people in an app. I'll say, I don't do a lot of texting or doing that whole thing, they give you like 20 questions. Right, right, right, right. What do you what's your ideal uh holiday and what would you do at a sunset? And it's like, yeah, no, oh, I don't want to even spend this time.

SPEAKER_01 13:20

Well, they're they've already weeded themselves out for me.

SPEAKER_03 13:22

Yeah, it's like let's make this an essay contest. So, yes, I totally am on board with that, but I've been told that some people it's like well, it depends on why they're there. The problem with apps, this is why I like the speed dating. The problem with apps is that people are there for all kinds of reasons. And one of the reasons they're on there is just to kind of have the little flirtatious experience. Really want to do anything.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

Yeah, right. The gratification, the gratification of matching with somebody, the gratification uh of doing a little bit of browsing, a little bit of shopping. Uh-huh. And yeah, it's disembodied, and so it it the stakes are lowered. It it feels it can feel um like a nice little dopamine shot to be like, oh, they thought I was cute.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

The dopamine shot.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

They thought I was cute, and that really is all that it is about. I think that's too when we as daters or people who are dating, we have to like give that grace. Sure. And really 100% focus on like, well, why am I in the game? Yeah. Why am I in the game? And when somebody asks me to explain why am I in the game, am I being clear, honest, chill about like because any rich which reason that brings you to the game or puts you in the ring, whatever metaphor you like, is fine. It is is fine. And it's like, how do we how are we representing ourselves when we are face to face or when we are connecting on this app? Like clarity over grace, clarity over grace, please, with dating.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

And just be totally honest. Like what the stakes are super low on the app. We haven't even met.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Like, do you want to meet for coffee? Yes or no? This is generally how I do this. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 14:56

Yeah, yeah, cool. That's right, that's the best answer to that. Um, so yeah, so you get to see the person, you get to assess the basic chemistry. They're I mean, there's a lot of people on apps even today that wear m they wear their masks and sunglasses, so you can't see their face.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

I don't know why they're so far away.

SPEAKER_03 15:14

Or they're so far away where it's blurry or they're that's a dog.

unknown 15:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Right.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

That's a dog. That's a waterfall.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Or those are your that's your abdomen. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

Or yeah, and so that's an abdomen, that's a body part. Yes. Or there's six people in a photo, and I don't know which one you are.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

There's that one too. And you all look the same. You all look the same. And also, is that your child? Why are they in the booth? Whose children is whose child is that?

SPEAKER_00 15:39

And then you're gonna have to justify that child. You're gonna have to use up your character space in your bio to say, not my kid. And who's the person my beautiful sister's kid or something? And you're like, don't don't put the kid in the We could have had this conversation over coffee. Tell me about you.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

Who's the person with the black bar over their eyes? Who is that? What is that person doing in there? Are their heads cut off? So, so all of that is problematic about the apps, and you have no way of uh really getting any assessment until you meet in person. But I've been told more than once that suggest my favorite thing to do is coffee meeting. Yeah, the reason I like it is I like coffee. Also, there's usually more than one door, so it's you can get out of a coffee shop if you have to. And it's only coffee, so you have a reason to leave. Yes, you can always say, Well, this has been great. My coffee's gone. I need to go to do anything else. And they have the same abilities and it's relatively safe. Yes, and I always say, you pick the place that's convenient to you and that you feel good about. Yeah, so it's so it's like I want this to be comfortable for you and also for us. Yes. And most of the time that works, but people have told me directly, oh, coffee, that's the worst thing to suggest. Now you're suggesting an interview date.

SPEAKER_01 16:55

Oh, well, then they're not your person.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Well, and generalizations like that when it comes to dating are uh are not our friend. Right. Because there is no like generalized like, here's how you date. It's heavily personalized. We wouldn't want it any other way. No, we absolutely wouldn't want it any other way. Like people operating in those important areas of their lives under these assumptions that, like, what you can't go out on a Wednesday or like it means this if you no, no, it doesn't. Nope. Those are the stories that we that are just on repeat in our brains that like separate us from simply living the life. Yes. Interacting with the energy of another person, whether that's online or in person.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Um if it's if if asking for coffee isn't the right fit for that person, then they're not the right fit for you. We've already weeded them out.

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah, self-select out sooner rather than later. Oh, yes, please. Was it you, Tracy, that told me years ago date off, date often, discard early. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:52

Ooh, date often.

SPEAKER_01 17:53

That's my philosophy. Right.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

Discard early.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

If we can, if we can add a little bit of like just like, oh, gentleness and kindness to the word discard. Like, I'm not saying discard to be an asshole. But I that has over the years has absolutely run in my head that like, you know what, I'm not doing us any favors by not by not saying no thank you early.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Yeah. And if we release both people.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Yeah, right. Get closer to what you want, and I'll get closer to what I want. Right. But oh my goodness, does that take a measure of like like found and cultivated self-acceptance, confidence, security?

SPEAKER_01 18:28

And willingness to sit in discomfort.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Yeah. Which is a lot of dating. A lot of it. A lot of it. Talk about like grace. Uh like we were talking about grace a little bit earlier. Like, talk about needing to give grace, that like the expectation that we would find any success in this, that's like that's the ideal, and that's the like more often than not in our dating experiences, we're gonna find out and gather data information about what we don't want.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Well, and some of it, and some of it is super like almost shallow. Sometimes I judge myself for being shallow. Yes. Of being like, oh, well, I mean, he seemed he seemed nice and he was pretty, but like I it just wasn't really tall enough for me. Yeah, that's why like you know, but um, but it's like way shallower stuff than that for me. Oh, yeah, yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Well, I always chalk that up to like it's not an energetic match. Just sound like a little uh quite Portland y and quite uh quite maybe maybe very millennial, but that's the the background that I come from, right? Like it's more just an energy match. Like, yeah, you're you seem cool, you don't seem like problematic, like but but energetically, nope, not just it's just a no for me.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

I think that's a good way to put it. I think that's a fair way because ultimately you're saying, you know, let's save ours both some trouble here, let's save ourselves some trouble and some investment here because it's a it's an act of grace to know when the energy isn't right and say it out loud.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Yeah, well, and speed dating sounds just efficient in that respect. It's very efficient. If over the weeks, you know, I find my groove with dating and my and my energy for it waxes and wanes. And I can imagine being like in a zone where I'm like, yeah, I'm dating this this is a busy week. I've got a couple people that I'd like to meet and see. I could see myself on a Thursday or Friday night being like, hell yeah, I got eight people I can do this with in one evening, as opposed to letting this play out over the next three or four weeks and having to manage the little bumble conversations or the little field conversations uh in that intervening time. Like babysitting that is much more stressful for me. So being in a speed dating scenario, particularly cultivated for my age group of millennials, perhaps.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

Right, because you get to sign up for your age group, an age group that you want.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Yeah, it seems like, oh, okay, like it's somebody's gonna do that for me, not and that's not going to be a disembodied piece of technology doing that for me. Like I'm like, hey, okay. Yeah, yeah, I would be, I would be interested in that.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

And I totally pay 50 bucks or whatever for that experience. Or someone to cultivate that experience for me, totally totally pay for that.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

Especially now that these companies that are starting up are trying to make it, you know, an elevated experience a little bit beyond what I did, which was a little bit, you know, come come as you are, and it will make this work. This is something that's a little more highly curated. And um, even companies like Bumble have opened up a bumble sort of meetup place for this kind of activity, like a restaurant in New York. I can't remember what it's called right now.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

It's reminding me of like the Airbnb experiences, right?

SPEAKER_03 21:24

It's like Bumble Experience. It's an experience, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Well, I would like them to do that in Portland.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

Well, I think I think this is a great place to do it, you know. One thing that happens as you get older, you that gets harder and harder to meet people, and this is sounds like a cliche, but it's really true. So when and and I've always had this philosophy when you're younger, okay, there are tons of people around that are also single and kind of in different stages of life and looking around. And if there's a lot of single people because they are either in between things or they haven't met the right person or they're focusing on school or jobs, and They're still out there and you see them and they're everywhere you go. Everywhere you go.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Not now, Ross. Not now.

SPEAKER_03 22:06

As you get older, and someone mentioned earlier, I don't know who it was, said that uh some of us aren't getting any younger, or whatever the expression was. Some of us are cragging out, whatever it was. Keeping the crypt. What was it? Something like that. Something expression chasing the coffin. I don't know what I heard. I heard that. Um, but then so now where do you find these people? If you're older, they're where do you and we're got some suggestions. Okay, well, I'm gonna come back to them. There's a but there are some single older persons, but it's not the same when you're younger.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_03 22:40

Um, why are they single? Okay, when you're younger and single, there's usually some very positive reasons. When you're older and single, something bad has happened. Yes, something bad has happened. We don't know what it is, but something has gone. Something bad has happened and may have not be your fault at all. Just circumstantially. But there's been a crash and a burn.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Or they just Yeah, and and I wanna like, I wanna offer a little bit like, yeah, crash and a burn, perhaps. And also maybe there's been just a graduation into like when you use romantic relationship in your life to to fill the hole of your own sort of self-worth. I can imagine then coming to a place in your age where you're like, ah, feeling a little bit more secure, no longer looking outside of oneself for such and such, right? So yeah, there's like I'm gonna be the same coin.

SPEAKER_03 23:34

No, that was my next thing. Yeah, great, great. They like being single. Uh-huh. And they're not out there. They're not out there to meet people, they're content in their life and they're okay with it. Or they're just not likable people.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

And there's that. Something has happened. They're happy being single, or yeah, there's less.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

They're a drag. Yeah. There's less.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

There's less. So then you go to the apps because it's like I weren't, and I don't cruise the bars anymore. And sure, I do activities and I'm out there. But a lot of things I like to do, there's much younger people. Same sure, same. It's just it's a numbers game. You're not going to meet them. So the apps provide at least a way to kind of date in your age range.

SPEAKER_02 24:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:18

But um it is really tough. So the speed dating is cool because it is still superficial, but it's a deeper level of superficiality.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Yes. It's an in-person superficiality. Yes, and at least you get that, you know, at least you get that energy exchange. And there's some realness within that. There's it's not all superficiality.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Well, and it it it it cultivates the group a little bit more if someone's doing that for you. Because on the apps, yeah, you can do the filters and some of the stuff, but I mean you have to pay to access some of those filters.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

Some of those filters, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

All I mean, there's well, uh all of it's tricky.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

So here's where I am now. I've been dating s for over three years now. Yeah. This is what I've this is what I've come to. The apps are better than nothing.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Yes. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 25:08

They can be a black hole of of time suckage. Um, you can get sucked into all of these things that go nowhere, or you get ghosted, or you ghost, or whatever it happens, people disappear, they're interested, they're not interested. But I still think that organic meetups are really the best way. It'd be nice. We'll think that.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

Agree, but here's the I work in my basement on a screen. I'm alone most of the time. I know. The people I work with are my clients. Yes. Not gonna date them. There's an ethical issue there.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

What?

SPEAKER_01 25:46

At least not for what? Not for years. At least eight, you know, a few years.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

Wait, I've got to call my therapist. Right.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

Well, he's a bit more than a yeah. Yeah. Right? So there's all those things. Like, where am I meeting these people? I mean, I do go to new seasons.

SPEAKER_03 26:02

I worked at new seasons.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

I know the the one I walk to.

SPEAKER_03 26:06

Um but when you're older, and I'm not saying you are. Oh, I am. And I'm not saying either one of you are, but when you are older, what happens is when you're I just feel like when you're younger, you see a single person, just someone alone, and you assume they're out there. Right. And so you it just gives you a certain it just it's a different milieu, even though it you may be wrong about their whole situation and often are. But when you're older and you see somebody who's alone, you're like, I don't know what they're doing. I don't know. Right. I don't feel comfortable like getting it. It feels like there's more experience this the stakes are higher, it seems.

SPEAKER_00 26:38

Yeah, I experienced this being in my early 30s now, and I think that it it's awesome. We have a nice age spread around this table where I'm like smack dab in the middle, like classic millennial right now. And as I date now in my 30s, dating people who have come in and out of their first marriages, dating people that have uh one or two children, like that have a full story behind them that brings them to the present moment. Right. Um, it's pretty cool. I kind of I find that to be a more rich experience. The people that I'm seeing have more depth, but they also have that same thing, like, oh boy, what happened? Like something has happened, and now they're dating on the other side of a divorce, of a longer-term relationship. Right, or like a co-parent, a long-term co-parenting sort of situation. Um there's a there's more uh there's just more depth of experience with the people that I am seeing now, and I find that to be a more rich experience than just like, oh great, we're both single. I've had those experiences too. Right. And it totally makes sense that we think about that as an as an age, as a as a an outcropping of somebody's age. And yeah, the assumption that, like, oh, we're in our mid-20s, like relative, like singleness means something different in that decade than it does in the next, than it does in the next.

SPEAKER_03 27:53

Yeah, I've said before that while that is a great thing that people acquire depth as they get older and more experiences and more, you know, they they they tend to be more differentiated as a human being, and that's all fascinating. Um when you know, the one thing that changes is that, and it's good and bad, it's good in terms of the differentiation process because as you get older, it's harder and harder to hide the weird thing that makes you and why would you want to but when you're younger? Depends on the weird things. You have all you have the promise of the future. So even if this person you're dating when you're in your teens or twenties and they've got this weird thing that you don't like, they have a temper, they have hobbies that you don't like. You you it's like you it's easier to discount or just rationalize. Yeah. And then it and then you think, well, over time something might change or something.

SPEAKER_01 28:45

Then you learn it doesn't. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

But you haven't learned it yet. Plus, you have the uh all the distraction of physicality and and chemistry to make up for the stuff that isn't really right. Yeah. And you're also not thinking this is my not necessarily thinking this is my forever person anyway. This is just who I'm with now. But as you get older, this is my 20s.

SPEAKER_00 29:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

As you get older, it's people stop hiding the thing. So on the one thing, no, or they can't hide it. So on the one thing, it's good because you can make these snap judgments like, okay, we don't have the right energy for each other. But uh on the other hand, it makes it harder to actually meet someone because you don't have these distractions. Um, you don't have the rationalization because you're like, uh they're if they're taking silverware off the table at the restaurant, that's a thing. Yeah. That's not gonna get better. Yeah, no, it's not. If they're in if they're someone if they're in their 40s or 50s and they're swiping junk.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

That's a problem.

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Yeah, that's like a thing that I need to pay attention to.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Do you all feel as as you as you age and date, do you do you have a similar experience of of the piece of the pie of the people that you would spend time with and date with the piece of the pie as with your younger years, it's it's maybe a quarter of the pie. It's a big piece of the pie, but as you age, it's a few.

SPEAKER_03 29:59

A narrow, narrow sliver. So much.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Which which in some in some regard you can be like, oh my god, and like fewer and fewer people that I feel like I would actually have a satisfying dating relationship experience with. Ugh, oh no, what am I gonna do? But then also, right, like the the likelihood that you'll match with somebody that m more meets your needs, should you actually be in touch with those needs.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

I think that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Because I find that exciting. Like I on the same, on the one hand, it's like, ugh, scarcity, and that, but then on the other hand, well, quality of connection perhaps could be that much better.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

I think that, and then the other thing I think is that dating now, so um, I am just a few months from 50. And um, which I'm very excited about. I I like exactly where I'm going and where I am. And I am no longer looking for a partner to have a family with or do any of those kinds of things. My kids are older, um, you know, one is going off to college in the fall, the other one is about to be a junior in high school. Like they're launching, right? So I'm not looking for someone to parent with, I'm not looking for someone to do that stuff with. Yeah. I'm looking for someone for like the next chapter of what that looks like. And I have a community of friends, I like my life, I have stuff I'm doing, I have a rich, full life already created. Yes. I don't I'm not looking for someone to do something with the same way I was before. Yeah. So I have a whole different set of criteria that I want that I have needs and interest in. And I'm actually, I think, pickier than I than I was in my twenties. Plus I I know more. There's there's there's all the wisdom you bring to it. Um but I'm also much more willing to on that coffee date be like, yeah, mm-mm. No thanks. No thanks, not not gonna, you know.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

That's true.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

Not gonna yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:51

It's much clearer what I what I like and what I don't like, and what I'm looking for, not even what I like or don't like, but what's a good fit and what isn't. Yeah. There's no and that's the advantage of dating when you're older, is that you don't rationalize the things that don't work anymore.

SPEAKER_01 32:06

It's like and there's also the um like, oh, you could be good for a very short time. I'm very aware of that, but you're not good for the long term. Is that worth it?

SPEAKER_03 32:16

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 32:17

Is it is it worth stepping down the road for a few dates? Because I think that might be fun for a little while.

SPEAKER_03 32:22

Right, which is fine.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Which is fine.

SPEAKER_00 32:24

Yeah, especially if that's like explicitly stated.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Yeah, and the other person are like, hey, you want to have fun for a little while? It's like, sure. Yeah. Um and then no, and being like, and I think we're done here. Like we can, we can move, shake, let's shake hands. High five. Moving on. We're done. And and not have that be some thing, or you don't have to make a big thing about that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:48

No. That just's good part. So it's hard, it's the sliver of acceptability gets narrower and narrower, but your ability to differ differentiate and express yourself and what you like and don't like um hopefully increases. Here's I'm gonna leave you with this idea. And this I think applies to all ages. I can think of this applying to myself when I was younger and applying to myself now, and and perhaps people of any age, and that is this is where I've landed on all of this after going on so many dates over the last three and a half years, after only having organic relationships up to that point. Gotcha. So I never did anything, never blind dated, never got fixed up, never used any sort of uh system for meeting people. Always met them organically. So now I've been dating for three and a half years using apps and all the things. And my takeaway is embrace being single while you can. It's kind of addictive.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

I really like it. Just told a friend last night I was like, man, I am wired for partnership, pack animal. I want my partner. Yeah, me too. And I also know that the more I am single, the longer I'm single, the easier it becomes. It does. So gosh, those two things are both very real for me right now.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

Well, here's what happens. So when you're content with your singlehood, yeah, as content as you can be, whatever is in your range of uh capability, um, when you meet someone new, and and and that's and I feel the same way. I'm interested in meeting the next person, yeah, but who are they competing with? They're competing with my content, solitary life.

SPEAKER_01 34:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

Because when I take someone new into my life, it's gonna mean probably that I subordinate some other people or some other interests because I have to give them their time and attention that they deserve. So that's what they're competing with. They're competing with a very full life of being a single person. Yes. And so it's not about for me, it's not about I've got a I have a hole that needs to be filled. I'm desperate. It's more about does this person bring enough extra that it's worth that.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

The frosting on the cake or the like the cherry on the Sunday, like the the adding richness to an already rich life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

Oh, that's a great way to leave it. Yeah, enrich a rich life. Yeah, yeah. So don't be afraid of being single, but yes, use the apps, try speed dating.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

If you use clarity over grace, if at all possible.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

Clarity over grace. Yes. Say how you feel. It saves everybody tons of time and energy and it gets you out of that black hole. Does so thank you both for chatting with me about this. Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

That's fun. Yeah, very good.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

We did a speed episode on speed dating. Perfect. Isn't that cool how we did that?

SPEAKER_02 35:42

It is.

SPEAKER_03 35:42

Thank everyone out there for joining us for this episode. If you like what we're doing, please share the show. Follow us on Instagram, give us the highest ratings, give us the highest ratings possible on whatever app allows you to do that. That helps people find us, and that's what we're trying to do right now. We're trying to share the love with everyone. And uh, if you want to support us on Patreon, that's a place you can find us, and we appreciate you considering that. And we hope you will tune in to another episode because whether you are being sucked down, a dating at black hole, or just someone looking for your regular dopamine shot, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans. Goodbye, everybody.