SPEAKER_00 0:00

So I type in his name, sure enough, there's a hit. I pull up the hit, what is it? It's an obituary! He died 15 years ago. Welcome to another episode of Smells Like Humans. The podcast where we explore the curious things that people do, the very human things that grab our attention and cause us to wonder what and why. I'm Ross, your host, and today's guest is my elongated and ever charming friend, Amy. Hello, Amy. Ross. Welcome back. It's been a while since we've had you, and welcome all of you to the show. Thanks so much for listening. I've recently learned that there's a whole podcast section of TikTok. And if you are on TikTok and can share or promote our show, tell people about our show over on TikTok, uh, among people who are into the podcast world, that would be really helpful. We're totally independent, and we need your help in growing our community. And you can always just share the show with friends on your social meds, however you do it. We appreciate it. Okay, let's dig into this week's episode, shall we?

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Let's oh man, so glad you said yes. So we know we've used a lot of different ways to say goodbye to people. Some people make a big deal out of it, but then there's the Irish goodbye, the French leave, the Swedish exit, and other variations on the same theme, which is leaving without saying goodbye.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

Ah, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

Amy, if you're at a party or some social gathering of some kind or another and you want to leave before it's officially over, before they drag the last drunk person out on the sidewalk, what is your strategy? Do you let people know you're going or do you sneak out?

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Sometimes, yes. I make a formal goodbye. My preference is to just leave. I have been known to leave my own parties at my own house and just go to bed. Um at um one of my birthday parties. I was I wasn't feeling well. I was kind of sick, but um, in the middle of the party, I was just like, this is not, I'm not feeling it. And so I just quiet, I think I even made an excuse, said I was going to do something else, and just got in my bed and went to sleep.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

This is a scenario that I have not read about or experienced. It's the one they don't talk about. They talk a lot about, you know, do you let anybody know? Do you let the host know? A lot of people say it's okay to sneak out, but you should let the host know. But if you are the host, that's a whole different kettle of fish. I just circumvented the whole situation by being Yeah, you just disappear, and then your guests are like, wait a minute, wasn't this Amy's party?

SPEAKER_01 3:17

Isn't it her birthday? Yeah, where'd she go?

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Where did she go? And do you ever get any blowback when you do stuff like that?

SPEAKER_01 3:25

No, I think there's something about leaving your own party that people assume like there's something probably significantly wrong with you, so they don't want to upset you any further. So they're just like, let's let it go.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

They don't want to get into it.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

How about you?

SPEAKER_00 3:41

There are some situations where I feel like I should say goodbye to at least the host of the thing or somebody who's got a significant role in whatever it is, so they can explain what happened. So there are circumstances. It's hard for me to think of one, but I know that I would under certain circumstances. Like if you and I were having dinner, I probably wouldn't just disappear.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Well, I should hope not.

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Because, you know, uh, there's no one there to pick up the slack, it's just you and me.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

I had never find my way back home.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

So but if it's a party, I think you already know the answer for me.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

I do. I didn't know if I was supposed to fake not knowing, but man, what's your go-to? Say it out loud, because I I want to say it. I'm saying it's mine right now.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

I want I want you to say it and see what it's the head nod.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Yeah, I do the head nod, the famous head nod.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

It's it's uh it's not so it's not like a complete Irish exit or whatever you want to call it, it's not leaving without saying anything. I look at somebody who I know pretty well and I give them a nod. I don't wait for any kind of response, and then I Scooby-do.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

You just disappear.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

I have mastered the sidling. I couldn't I can sidle all the way across the country if I have to without anyone noticing me.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

You did, that's pretty much how you got to the other coast.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

Yeah, that's right. So you just take a couple of steps at a time, you just move laterally like a crab until you find yourself at a door or window and you beat it. Now, um, I was gonna ask you if people, when people do that to you, like me, does it bug you? Like, does it make you mad? Does it get make you question? Like, what why did they leave? Are they having a bad time? I think or do you not care?

SPEAKER_01 5:56

Well, I think prior to knowing you well, um, it would have bothered me for sure. Partially because I think, and I'm learning this as I get older, I have some kind of weirdly formal and traditional. Um, I just like for things to be, I don't want to say rules, but I like some rules. And when they get broken, I get kind of been out of shape. But once I knew that you did that, like I it and it happened a couple of times. The first couple of times it happened, I was like, what's up? Ross just head nods and then he's not here. That's crazy. Like they're supposed to be along, like, oh my god, I'm gonna miss you so much, and this has been a great evening. And we talk for another 25 minutes, and then you know, we stand in the yard, and then we get in the car, and then I drive halfway home with you. You know, that's the way you say goodbye properly. But after kind of your way, I was like, wait a minute. I really like, I really like that because we don't have to have that extra 40 minutes of yada yada yada talk. I just find a good moment and then I'm out. So I'm a fan now. Big fan. So much of a fan that I've done it at my own house.

SPEAKER_00 7:08

Yeah, see, that's the thing now. I mean, I think that is the ultimate, you know, expression of this idea. It's like if you disappear at your own party, that's awesome. Like that's maxing it out, that's going the full, the full, the full distance. You know, I was reading about this, whether it's considered good or bad, and it's pretty much what I thought. You know, the the altruistic reasons that you do it, um, because there are altruistic reasons and there's selfish reasons. So the altruistic reasons, if when you like make a big deal out of leaving, it kind of kills the vibe of the party because you're leaving early. So it's like, hey, you sort of you're sort of making a show of the fact that you're leaving and you're signaling to other people, maybe this party's over, or maybe this party's lame, or maybe we should think about why we're not leaving. So that's a you don't want to send that message, or if you make a big deal about engaging the host, the host is often busy, like in conversations, or they're filling drinks, or they're running around, or they're being celebrated, or whatever, and you're like, hey, excuse me, excuse me, I just want to let you know I'm leaving, and you kind of like interrupt their thing to make it about you. So there's there are arguments to be made that you know, just taking off, you know, just saying, you know, just skipping out the window, sliding under the door, whatever you can get away with, it's actually better for everybody because you're not sending this weird message that maybe the party stinks and you're not bugging the host or interfering with what they're doing or causing them to spend more time and energy on you, right?

SPEAKER_01 8:56

Right. Because the goodbye is kind of like the space where you're like, okay, now I need to be your whoever's attention to be about the fact that I'm leaving.

unknown 9:07

Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

And you know, some people want to say goodbye, so they do get that attention. Like, why are you leaving? No, stay. It's like they actually want that. So they they want that, they crave that at that attention. They have the need to get the strokes that way. And so that's why, you know, they're doing it. So there are also selfish reasons why people do it. Uh mainly you don't want to have to deal with people feeling disappointed.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:41

You don't want to deal with that instead of craving the no, no, stay. It actually, you don't want that, it makes you feel uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

You don't want to, you don't want to have to like continue to like make a case for why you have to go, why you want to go. Like, you don't want to have to come up, well, what's your reason? I don't know. I just want to go home and eat Cheetos in my bed. Yeah. You know, if I don't have a good reason.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Um, and then sometimes it can just be a long process, you know, because you have to say goodbye to all these people. And if you say goodbye to some people, not other people, then they feel like, hey, Ross left and he didn't say goodbye to me. Well, he said goodbye to me. And then it's like, why would he say goodbye to you? And not say, you know, it's just a thing. It's so much better and cleaner if you can just bust out of there without anybody knowing.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

Just Scooby-Doo right out.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

I've read that uh it the the rule of thumb is don't ghost the host.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

So you should say something to the host, but again, I again it's situational for me because sometimes the host is busy, they're obviously engaged, or you know, you anticipate they may be offended, and it's easier just to disappear. And at some point in the evening, they may notice you're gone, or they may not. It may never occur to them.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

They may assume you're hiding somewhere in their home for the rest of the evening and maybe into the next day.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Maybe you're doing them a favor, though, I think, by just skipping out without saying anything. Now, I think so too. I know you know about the head nod and the fact that I have disappeared at social gatherings before. You've seen it happen. But I actually have a history of doing like stuff like this. I kind of like it. I kind of like this disappearing from things or leaving things.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Why is that? Um, I don't know. Huh.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

I like there's something exciting and sort of Riley humorous about it to me. Um, so one time in college, I was uh got a job at the radio station, and I got a job in the sports department. And the idea, I was a freshman, and so the idea is you had to like kowtow to the seniors who are running everything and kiss their butts and make them feel happy all the time, and maybe you would get some airtime, okay?

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Yeah, I got it.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

So one guy actually said to me one time, you should be worshiping the ground I walk on. Actually said that to me.

SPEAKER_01 12:24

Wow. Yeah, so too much.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

One, yeah, I don't know. It didn't rub me the right way. So we were doing a remote broadcast, or the team was, and I was, you know, helping out. I wasn't on the air, but I was helping out. We went to this um other city, and there was a basketball game, and we covered it. And um there was a truck where we brought equipment and we were all rode in it together, and there was like um three of us on this one. So there was the um two helper guys and then the the main guy.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

So uh helper guy and me and the main guy. And at the end of this game, he sent us to get the truck and told him told us to pick him up at this location. So we go out and we put every we load up the truck. We're basically the minions, get the truck, start driving to pick him up. He's standing out there waiting. And I say to this guy, who I didn't really even know that well, the guy that was driving, I said, uh, we're leaving him. And the weirdest part of this whole thing wasn't that it was that the guy who again did not really know, agreed. Like, yes, that's what we're doing. We had no prior conversation, none of this. We had no griping sessions, we were just we didn't really even know each other, but he was down, and we just turned the thing around and took off and left this guy left him, all right. Like a like a I don't know, it's like a hundred miles away. It was a distance, it wasn't the end of the world distance, but we left him to get home on his own. Well, the next day there was a knock at my door, and uh this guy showed up, which I knew he would. How was he feeling? He was confused and mad, yeah, but he was trying to maintain uh, you know, because he was the ripe old age of 21 and I was just a punk. But he said, uh, Ross, why did you leave me? And I said, I don't know, really. Because I did not have a reason. I mean, ultimately the reason was these guys were acting like schmucks, and I just felt like they needed a little comeuppance. But I also knew that this was not a strong move. If you're a new guy and you're trying to make a name for yourself and get included, uh, this is not how you want to start out.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

That ain't it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Um so he said, you know, I got to uh fire you. And I go, Yeah, I kind of figured that.

SPEAKER_02 15:17

Fire you.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Well, sir. Fire me from the sports team. Yeah, I couldn't do sports on the radio at this university, and I knew it was coming and I was okay with it. Like there, no part of me thought, wow, I wish I could turn back the clock, and I wouldn't have left him because I really Yeah, and I really wanted to do it, but it's like it was still, it was much more worth it to leave him there and let him find his way home than for me to get on the air and be able to do sports radio.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Congrats.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

You have not any ever. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

So one time when I was about I'm an only child and I was probably six or so years old. So my parents would, because they couldn't really afford a babysitter, they would just take me with them. So if they went to a a party or a a gathering or whatever, they just take me with them. So I was with my parents this one night, and it was late to me as a six-year-old. I have no idea. It could have been 8:15. It was uh feeling late. Um, and my my mom, it's important to know, my mom is very outgoing and very sociable, particularly when she was younger. And my dad, not so much, and this was a pretty large gathering, and there was a fair amount of adult beverages being passed around, and my dad was ready to go, and my mom was not.

SPEAKER_02 16:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:38

So uh my dad indicated to my mom that he would like to leave, and my mom didn't want to, and she expressed that somehow. And then so this sort of course escalates in the sense that my dad made it more clear that he really wanted to leave. So at this point, my mom makes the decision to leave. So we get in the car, and it becomes apparent to me, and as a six-year-old, you're just like, whatever, like you're in the car, you're at the house, whatever, like you have no say-so whatsoever. You're just part of the you're just there for the journey, and whatever happens, you're there.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Um, so we're in the back of this uh 1988 silver Chevy Chevette two-door, and we start driving home, and it becomes apparent to me pretty quickly that my mom is really upset that she had had to leave this party. It escalated, but pretty quietly. But I could feel the tension was getting pretty much. And my father said, We got to a stoplight, and my dad said, You want to go back to the party? Go back to the party. And he exited the vehicle at the stoplight and started to walk, I would assume, home. So we're sitting there, my mom in the passenger seat, me in the back seat, sitting at a stoplight with no driver currently. And we both sit there for a moment.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

And my mom realizes tell me that he left the driver's side door open with the car running. That would be perfect.

SPEAKER_01 18:06

Oh, absolutely, because she's got to get into the drive, but we're just sitting there. So, yeah, so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

But what are you as a kid? What's your experience of this moment? Like, are you worried?

SPEAKER_01 18:18

Thinking the six-year-old equivalent. I don't know if I can say this on the podcast, but what the fuck just happened? Like, like, how what that's not right, you know, going back to my like, I need I need rules, I need structure, I like for things, I like for drivers to stay in the driver's seat the entire section of the of the ride. Yes, you do.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

There's nothing weirder for a kid than when your parents slip off their brain pan. Yeah. That is the weird, that is the most unsettling thing, unless your parents regularly do that. And I know some people who that's what their childhood is like, but if you're if your childhood is relative, your parents are relatively stable actors, at least in terms of their behavior around you, and then when they lose it or they they they flip the script, it can be very unsettling.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

It was pretty unsettling, and you know, I think I didn't have a good sense of like this was in the realm of possibility, or that they were like that the it was getting that tense, like there was that much trouble, like trouble in that moment.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Yeah, yeah. What is that too with parents? Where it's like, I remember many times I would say, How did we get here from the few words that were just spoken? Because as a kid, you don't know the whole backstory and all the tension and all the layers, right? All you're seeing is somebody say, Can you pass the salt? And then somebody just throws themselves out the window and then lights the house on fire. And you're like, How did we get to this?

SPEAKER_01 19:53

I it definitely. They never explain it. No, and it feels weird to ask afterwards, be like, hey, so what happened there? Like, is dad just really mad about that salt? Because you asked for the salt and then he smashed it into a wall. I have no idea. Was it not iodized? I don't know what iodized mean, but maybe he really wanted iodized salt and we didn't have any.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

To be truthful, uh, when I was a kid and my parents would slip loose like that, I didn't really, I mean, I was curious in a way about why I didn't really care about why. I really just wanted them to knock it off.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

I think only stop screwing around, would you?

SPEAKER_01 20:36

Yeah. I think the only reason to know why is so that somehow in my in my tiny little uh tiny brain, kid brain, that I could somehow be like, okay, here's some signals that this is about to happen. Because, like you're saying, it seemed like like 99 times out of a hundred regular stuff was happening. So maybe there was some secret symbol that or signal that I could see that would uh be helpful. But I never I never discerned it. So yeah, I mostly just wanted it to not be happening.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

So I'm wondering, I mean, I've seen a plenty, I've seen plenty of rom coms. Oh, and normally what would happen is mom would maybe get into the driver's seat, but then be driving next to dad with the window open saying, Dear, get in the car. Come on, this is silly. Get in the car. And then eventually he would get in the car. Is that what happened?

SPEAKER_01 21:31

So, guess what happened? She I think she kind of pulled the car up beside him. Uh, I think she just stopped. I don't think many words were exchanged. My dad got in the driver's seat and we drove home extremely silently.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Okay. Yeah. I think the fact that he just got out was great. I think getting he should have just, but he should have leaned in and just kept walking.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

Commit. You gotta commit.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

I love stories about parents. Parents getting wiggy and then kids trying to like make sense of it because it's parents have no idea how their behavior affects their kids, they really don't have a clue. And back in the day, they didn't really care.

SPEAKER_01 22:16

I don't know that it was totally like I don't think either of them was really, really aware that I was in the car. Like, you know how you get so mad anyway, and you're like, what, where, what kid? Is like I you know, and there were no rear view mirrors at that time. So I'm sure they couldn't even see me.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

At that age, yeah, you were probably sitting low, but at that age, you you were really just a prop anyway. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

It was like a handbag they brought along. No, nobody cared whether it was in the back.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

A hand, you were a hand, a human handbag. I was a human handbag. Here's my thinking about now, the current moment. I don't think you can get away with these Irish exits and French leaves and Scooby-dooing or whatever you want to call it. Because two reasons. One, uh text accountability. So tell me a moment. Well, if you go, if you if you go and people notice you're not there, you start getting texts immediately. Where are you? What are you doing? Before before texting and before the internet, you could do this, and people had no way, other than calling your house, if they knew your number, they had no way of holding you accountable until the next time they saw you or talked to you on the on the hard phone, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:46

The hard phone, I like that.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Yeah, the hard phone, you know, the one that was plugged into a wall.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Oh, yeah. I had one of those.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

You had to crank it.

SPEAKER_01 23:56

Hey, Petty, can you get me too? We left the party and I don't know where he is.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

Berkshire 347, please. The reality is in the old days when you would leave, people couldn't say you wouldn't hear from them. And maybe the next time you talk to them, it'd be days later. And then at that point, the whole issue is kind of over. They might say, Hey, at the party, you kind of disappeared. And after after like three or four days, you can say something like, Yeah, I guess so. And that's good enough. No one's really expecting but on but now with rapid fire texting, it's like we need to know right now where you are. Are you okay? Is everything all right? Do you have a ride home? You know, are you safe? What's the problem? And you know, you just you can't you can ignore it, but it kind of just builds up the pressure to respond.

SPEAKER_01 24:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:55

No, I don't think you can get away with it as easily now.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

So that's a problem. So for people younger people listening to this, they know exactly what I'm talking about. You just get flooded immediately, and people won't leave you alone, and they'll track you and they'll see if you're on Facebook or TikTok or whatever, and they'll be like, Oh, there you are. We know where you are.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Why aren't you at the party?

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Yeah, where what happened to you? Why did you leave? Why didn't you say anything? Ugh, I don't like that. But it's worse than that now, I think. It's worse than that because there used to be a thing, and I know you're old enough to know this, where you could say goodbye to someone and never see them again. The final goodbye. Like you're quitting a job, and you say, Goodbye, boss, goodbye, co-worker, see you never, or you would be in school or be doing something, and you would say, So long, pal, and you'd never see them again, and you'd never know anything about them. They just would go away, just go away. But now oh now, now you're never can say goodbye to anyone, even the people you think you said goodbye to are always lurking, always lurking. They're always there, they're lurking either because of the interconnectedness of your friend network or your work groups online, um, the constant memories that your phone keeps always reminding you of. Yes. Remember this from five years ago when you had a wife? So they're always showing us these people from our past. Everyone's just a click away. Your exes creep around on your tech service, you know. They like three o'clock in the morning, you get the weird ex text, you know, like what's going on? You up, buddy? You up? You want to chit-chat? I'm feeling a little lonely. Um people don't disappear anymore, they're always one click away.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

When I was in my early 20s, I dated a guy, he cheated on me. You know, it's never good when somebody cheats on you to break up, but we went our separate ways. We were young and we went on to other things. Flash forward to, I don't know, like 10 years from now, like it's 10 years ago now, but it would have been 15 years later. I'm in Chicago taking um some improv classes, and you do the thing you do when you're somewhere and you take a selfie, you're like, Chicago, look at me taking classes, and then you post it on the Facebook. Well, then on the Facebook, this person, this boy that I had dated a decade ago, uh sees it on Facebook and sends me a message and is like, Hey, you're in Chicago, why don't we have dinner together? Like, yeah, why? I hate you, I hate you, and I mean, I don't even really hate you anymore. I don't even know you. I hated you a decade ago, and now you're just somebody I hated a decade ago. Why would I want to have a pizza with you? But suddenly I'm and I just avoid I didn't, we did not, spoiler alert. Uh I was too busy. But like, why? This is terrible. So, yeah, definitely. No Facebook, no pictures.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Yeah, it's like the the in the old days that person would have been gone. Yeah, and you never would have heard from them again. Like you never would have had that moment of like, should I do this? Should I see this person? Because that's what happens, is like you think about would this be okay? Should I say hello? Is there anything wrong with it? When the reality is, no, you do you're this this this this time the time when you were on a path together, the paths diverged, and they went their way and you went your way, and it's you never the paths are never gonna cross again. No, that ship sailed. So, another story from when I was in college, there was a kid named Phil. And uh, so I I was a freshman at age 17. I was quite immature, I didn't want to go to college, I had no interest in going to college, and the only reason I got into college is because my father went to the school and convinced the dean that I was not a loser.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Wow, your dad went to bat for you.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

He did. It was one of the cool three things that he did good for me. He did three three cool things. So um, so he actually talked the dean into it, and it was kind of funny. Side story is that I so he he went down, he convinced the dean to give me an interview, despite the fact my grades sucked.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Okay, in my high school grade. Like my transcript was just like a cartoon. So uh, so so he arranged, so the dean says, Okay, I'll interview this kid, and as long as he's not a schmuck, I'm paraphrasing, I don't know what he said, but basically, you know, as long as he's not a schmuck and doesn't pull a knife or whatever, we're gonna give him a crack. So my dad explains this to me. He says, You gotta drive out to the school, meet the dean, don't screw it up, and you'll be able to get into college. Again, the whole time, I don't even want to go to college. I have no interest. It's the last thing I want to do is like I don't care. I'm 17, I'm an idiot. Sure. I go driving out, it's like whatever many hours out there. I get in there, I get there's a secretary there in the office, dean's office, and I say, I'm here to see the dean. And she's and I was supposed to bring, you know, my materials transcripts. She goes, Well, let me see your materials, and I show her the materials. She goes, You can't go here, you're a goon.

SPEAKER_01 31:10

What did she really say goon?

SPEAKER_00 31:13

Well, no, I'm paraphrasing again. She said, You're a bum, beat it. Like, take take your crappy transcript and go to the soup kitchen. Nobody wants you. Get the hell out of here. You're never going to college, you're an idiot. So I say, Thank you. I drive all the way back home. My dad's very excited. How did it go? I said, I never got to meet the guy because they said I'm a bum. And he's like, No, what? No, he said he would see you. So he calls the guy. The guy apologizes, like, no, the secretary didn't realize that it was a set up deal, and that I was blah, blah, blah. So my dad says, You got to go all the way back out. So I'm like, Oh, really? Can't I just not go to college? Can I just be a bum? Like, they said I was a bum. I am a bum. Can I just be who I am? He goes, No. You'll you'll thank me later. So I drive all the way back out. I meet with the dean. I do get into college, but for the first few months, I'm kind of not really college material. I'm doing a lot of bad stuff. I'm creating problems, same stuff I was doing in high school. I'm cutting up, I'm doing things, I'm getting in trouble. And then I discover this guy, Phil, and we decide we're gonna start throwing parties at school. That's gonna be our thing. We're gonna put on parties, we're gonna put on events, and my whole energy changes. I become much more productive and creative and spending all that energy instead of making mayhem, making cool parties and all that stuff. So Phil and I create this little company. It wasn't a real company, but you know, we came up with the name and we start putting on these parties. Well, at some point, I meet another kid named Lenny. And we have much better ideas together, and our synergy is much better. So there's a gradual, you know, shifting. You're shifting over uh transition from Phil to Lenny.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

Lenny's in, Phil's out.

SPEAKER_00 33:32

When we put on many parties and do many things and many events, well, Phil is not happy with the transition. He does not like it. He's getting the boot. Yeah, and and again, at the time I didn't really appreciate his point of view. It was more like, well, no, this is I just we did things together and now I'm doing things with Lenny. But I get it, I get it. He felt bad about it. He felt like he was being, you know, he was jilted, essentially. He was a jilted lover. So we stopped being friends in that first year, and the rest of the time at school, I don't hang out with him and I almost never see him. So I graduate somehow. Again, barely made it out, but I graduate and I go on with my life. I never think about Phil again. I don't think about him. Never. Sure. Um, there's no internet, there's nothing, there's no way I don't even know where he is. I left the area, I'm somewhere, I'm all over the place. Years and years go by. Recently, a couple of weeks ago, I think about this guy, Phil.

unknown 34:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

I go, I wonder whatever happened. And I feel kind of bad about it. It's like, man, I really appreciate how he felt. You know what I'd like to do? I'd like to reach out to Phil because I can do it on the internet, right? I'll find him and I'll give him a call or I'll send him an email and say, hey, just wanted to check in. I enjoyed you, you know, you know, our friendship, and I'm sorry it didn't end well, and I get how why you were, you know, just make some amends.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Sounds great.

SPEAKER_00 35:08

And because it before the internet, you would just say you would have that thought, but you would it would be a passing thought, and then you'd forget about it. Because you wouldn't know how to find anybody, you'd have to hire a private detective and spend a million dollars.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Not for Phil.

SPEAKER_00 35:23

But all I do is type in his name, I remember his name, type it in, just type in Phil. How many Phil's can there be? No. Seven. Seven guys named Phil. So uh, so I type in his name. Sure enough, there's a hit. I pull up the hit. What is it? It's an obituary. He died 15 years ago. He's been dead for 15 years, the poor guy. Died young. And I felt really bad about it. Um, because it was like not only do I have the passing lingering guilt of the fact that our relationship didn't end well.

unknown 36:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:06

Now I have the extra feeling bad of the fact that he's not even on the planet anymore.

unknown 36:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

So so it was like a double dose of bad feelings. And that's when I started thinking, like, wow, this never would have happened before the internet. You just it was so easy. I thought of it. A minute later, I Googled him. A minute later, I find out he's a ghost.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

Wow. So what's next? You're gonna have to have a seance, I guess, so you can have this result.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

I don't know. I actually had this weird idea because they list like his wife and his kid. He had a kid. So like I could reach out and say, hey, your dad was a nice guy. I knew him in college, just wanted to say hello, and and uh just found out he croaked off. So also I kind of jilted him.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

And I'm feeling guilty.

SPEAKER_00 37:02

So I just started realizing like we're never, ever, we never really now ever lose anybody. People are with us forever. Is it better that we never lose anybody? Or is it worse? What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Oh, Ross, you know, I always want to take the middle path. But I think about, you know, all of the people that I went to high school with, with whom I have very little in common anymore, and don't really need to continue a relationship with, they don't see any value in me. We have nothing in common, like my friend from or my ex-boyfriend from in Chicago. That didn't bring about anything good because I didn't want to see him, and I'm sure he was like, Well, why? Let's just let's just do a new thing together. And I didn't had no interest, so that was bad. But it's good.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

That was a booty call. That was a booty call. Hey, you're in Chicago? Hey.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Oh, oh, I never thought of that.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Oh, well, I'm just breaking it to you the way it is, you know.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

Okay. Still would say no, but it's good to know. I'll I'll I'll uh keep that. I'll put a pin in that for later.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

Put a pin in it.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Pins in it. Um, but I think sometimes it's good because there are lots of people that I'm happy that I can continue to be connected with, like you, for example.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Yeah. No, I think I guess well, the way I'm thinking, because initially my instinct is to say no, I like this idea where you could say goodbye forever and it meant something, you know, because now it doesn't mean anything. Goodbye, have a nice life. No, I'll actually I'm gonna see you on Facebook tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

I'm gonna Google you right away.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Yeah, I'm gonna see you. I'm in the we're all we're in the same Facebook group, so you know, yeah, I'll I'll track you. Or, you know, we're on Instagram, whatever. It's like I know, I'll know what you're doing, even if we're not chatting. So, and uh yeah, you can always Google and find out where people live in their whole life, whole life story, it's just right at your fingertips. So initially I felt like yuck, you know, the guy who liked leaving and likes playing tricks on people and like disappearing from parties. Yeah, I mean, I don't uh that's no good. I want to be gone, but there's something to be said, and the Phil the Phil story actually helped me appreciate this because I did actually legitimately feel bad that he had passed on so many years ago and I didn't know. And I feel like there is a certain benefit to being connected forever because it creates a social accountability that we didn't used to have for our relationships and our behaviors, and I'm not saying you should linger in your mistakes, but the idea that your community stays with you in some capacity forever, and maybe that helps us be better humans. Maybe over time, like a few million years of doing that, we evolve into much more compassionate human beings because you know that's what that does for us. We're constantly connected to everyone that we know or have known. If we're not constantly connected in terms of every day, the potential for connection is always there. You're never off the hook, you're never off the hook, you're never, no matter how far you sidle, you're still within arm's reach.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

You can't Scooby-do.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

You can't do the Scooby. I think the forever goodbye is over. Uh I think that it's harder just to even slip out of parties because people can get after you really fast and know exactly where you went and what you're up to.

SPEAKER_01 40:54

Yeah, would that change things if you'd known Phil passed away before?

SPEAKER_00 40:59

I think it would have made a difference in my sharing my uh feelings about, you know, about you know, my my regret that I had about the way he was treated. Like I wish I had treated him better.

SPEAKER_02 41:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Um, there was a higher probability, of course, that that would have happened. And of course, I would have known that he had passed.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:21

Or maybe he was sick ahead of time, or who knows? I have no idea what the circumstances were because he was gone from my life. So I could see where it would have made a positive difference. But I gotta tell you, I'm wrestling with it because part of me is like, how much emotional baggage can we really carry? And how many people do we have to carry? Seven. Seven? Is that the number? I I can handle seven.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

We'll have to deal with it as it comes up. Well, Amy, I appreciate you and your wisdom on this topic.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

It doesn't feel very wise, but I appreciate you categorizing it that way.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

That's the way I'm gonna categorize it. And I want to thank everybody for joining us for this episode. Um, if you like what we're doing, uh please help us. I mentioned that you can share the show. You can rate the show on certain apps. If you give us a high rating, that really helps. If you can go on places like TikTok, if you're familiar with that, and you can promote us uh on uh TikToks that specialize on podcasts that are worth listening to, that would help us a great deal to reach a whole different group of people than we are right now. And uh, of course, the most important thing is just telling your friends and family about it so uh they'll become part of our community. We would love that or on Patreon support that way. And all that would be great, and we hope you will tune in to another episode because whether you are sneaking out of your own birthday party like Amy, or just someone who likes leaving their family at a traffic light, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans. Goodbye, everybody, but I don't mean forever goodbye. I just mean regular goodbye.