Smells Like Humans
Top 5% global podcast! Smells Like Humans is a seasonal podcast dedicated to bringing a humorous perspective to quirky and curious aspects of human behavior. Each show, the SLH crew will focus on a different topic, and share personal stories and observations in a way that sounds like you’re hanging out with your funny friends. The stories and commentary are presented with humor and warmth, since let’s face it: we all smell like humans. (Contact us: contactSLH19581980@gmail.com)
Smells Like Humans
"GOODNIGHT ROSS-BOY!"
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Marvelous Madeline joins Ross to discuss whether multi-generational living arrangements are due for a comeback. Tangents include: pine nuts; The Waltons; The Love Boat; White Walkers; Raymond Burr; chasing children; invisibility; tiny houses; club houses. Ross offers his theory on how you can meet any star.
Notes:
- https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/mar/10/rise-of-multigenerational-family-living
- https://users.pop.umn.edu/~ruggles/multigenerational.pdf
- https://www.un.org/en/development/desa/population/publications/pdf/popfacts/PopFacts_2019-2.pdf
Contact us: contactSLH19581980@gmail.com
If you look in my pantry right now, and I hope that you will, I hope you do, what you will find are extra sacks of pine nuts. Pine nuts! Welcome to another episode of Smells Like Humans. This is the podcast where we explore the curious things that people do, the very human things that grab our attention, and cause us to wonder and why. I'm Ross, your host, and today's guest is a friend who is so reliably bright. She could get a job as an all-night floodlight on my neighbor's shed, Madeline.
SPEAKER_01Aw, thanks, Ross.
SPEAKER_00And welcome to the show, everyone. Please support us, and the way to do that is to share the show. Send the link to the show to someone you think might like it. We love that kind of support. It really helps us grow our little community, and it is so appreciated. Like most podcasters, we're independent little guys. And if you like what we're doing, please help us and send us a note of encouragement. That really helps too. We appreciate it. It means so much to hear from you. Let's get going. Let's do this. Okay, we know that people for many decades have looked at their family home as a place where you stay for a while while you're a youngster, and you can't do anything about it. But when you reach adulthood, whatever that means, you scooby-doo as fast as you can, get the heck out of there. Uh-huh. And those forced by hard times to return home are sometimes filled with embarrassment or shame because they've had to go back home.
SPEAKER_01Right. There's the your mother's basement stereotype, right?
SPEAKER_00They haven't made it. They fail, they're failing at life. A failure. But this wasn't always the case.
SPEAKER_01And still isn't some places.
SPEAKER_00Before industrialization, it was common for baby parents and grandparents all to live under the same roof. Do you re no, it's not a Twilight Zone. Oh sorry. Do you rem do you remember the Waltons?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, vaguely.
SPEAKER_00That was a TV show. Yes. About this whole family that lived in Virginia in a house.
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00And they had adventures of some kind or another. But what the show was famous for was at the very end they would all go to sleep at the same time because hello, it's like a hundred years ago.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00There's nothing to do.
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_00And so they just go to bed. Like as soon as there's a sliver of darkness, they're like, gotta go to bed. Right. Side note.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00This uh episodic sleep, that's not what it's called. It's not called episodic sleep, but this idea where you sl go to bed early, you sleep for a while, then you wake up and you're productive for a couple hours. But it was apparently reportedly more common back in the day when people would go to bed as soon as dark hit, they'd work all day, they'd be exhausted. Yes, they'd eat their gruel, they'd hit the rack, but then they would wake up like and they would be productive for two or three hours.
SPEAKER_01And then you'd have second sleep.
SPEAKER_00Then you'd have second sleep. What's it called though? It's not episodic sleep, it's something else. It has a name. But anyway, I went through that during the pandemic because a lot of times. And we're in the Pacific Northwest, so in the winter it gets dark at three o'clock.
SPEAKER_01Three o'clock. That's depressing as hell.
SPEAKER_00You've just finished your Twinkie and tea, and it's like lights out.
SPEAKER_01I'm not even off work yet.
SPEAKER_00And so anyway, the Waltons.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Those poor bastards.
SPEAKER_00They were they were bastards. They they they the show was famous, so it's I barely watched the show. I didn't like it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because nothing ever happened.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But at the end, they'd all get to bed, they'd hit the rack, and they would all take turns saying goodnight to each other.
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00So they all had names. I don't remember all the names. But it was good night, this, good night, you know, good night, Paw. Good night, Maw, goodnight, Pickles, goodnight, mannequin, goodnight, baby Toes Johnson, goodnight, imaginary friend. And and at the very end, you would hear, good night, John Boy. He was the main character, John Boy, Walton. Good night, John Boy. And back in the day, this was like the 70s, uh-huh, that became a catchphrase.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00People would say, Good night, John Boy, and it was funny, and everybody knew what you were talking about.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00That's how bad it was back then.
SPEAKER_01That was considered funny and entertaining.
SPEAKER_00This show lasted for 13 seasons, by the way. People living in a house. Yeah. Grandma, grandpa, ma, and pa, all these kids, there was like 50 kids. I don't know how many kids there were. The uh all living in this wooden house in Virginia on a mountain.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, wow.
SPEAKER_00But it was Walton Mountain, it was their own mountain. Like they had a mountain.
SPEAKER_01They had a mountain. If you got a mountain, there's some generational wealth there. I mean, come on. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Come on, Walton.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Back in the 70s, by the way, TV was designed to do one thing, and that was numb you out.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, yeah. It was uh it was sort of like uh visual Xanax.
SPEAKER_01Ah.
SPEAKER_00Before Xanax was a thing.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00That was back when people would take a Valium and have a glass of Scotch.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00But if you were a kid And watch the Waltons. If you were a kid, you couldn't get the Scotch. Right. So you just had the Valium and the Waltons. You could only get the Valium and the Waltons. And the Waltons was perfect for that. But it was a very much a numb decade, and for my money, it could have just been skipped altogether.
SPEAKER_01Good to know.
SPEAKER_00Like you could have just gone from 1969 to 1980, and that would have been a good thing for everyone.
SPEAKER_01Okay, good to know.
SPEAKER_00And you would no one would have missed it. Right. But that didn't happen. What were the big shows in the 70s? Just I'm gonna pick a few. Okay. The Brady Bunch.
SPEAKER_01Ugh. Sorry.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Got reaction. The Love Boat. Uh-huh. Fantasy Island.
SPEAKER_01My mom was just talking about Fantasy Island. I thought you were gonna say my mom was on Fantasy Island.
SPEAKER_00She was uh Hervey Vilashev's lover.
SPEAKER_01Wow.
SPEAKER_00The plain on and on. These are the shows that we're on. Okay. So bad, unserious, mind-numbing fair, lowest common denominator TV. Okay. So you know how people like, I don't know if you ever watch Game of Thrones or cared about it, but people like argued about that show and how it ended, and they have like, what about this thread? And this doesn't make sense, and what about all this? No one argued about the love boat. Nobody's like going, Well, what's Captain Stubing doing? It was like, yes, you never argued about what was on TV because it was so bad. Okay, it was so simple-minded. Yeah, there were no mysteries to unravel.
SPEAKER_01We were in between Star Trek.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that was part of it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00For the serious Game of Thrones people. I watched this mainly as a sociological experiment because since everyone else was watching it, I wanted to know what it was that everybody else was doing so I could kind of take a look at it.
SPEAKER_01That's why I read Twilight, I understand.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. But when I would point out like some inconsistencies and problems I had with the the narrative, people would get defensive. Like I was attacking their religion. Oh yeah. Like, how dare you question the mother of dragons? The ice, the ice people, the ice walkers, the white walkers, the weird walkers, the white walkers, the white walkers. The white walkers. Yeah. I mean, there's a name for you. Yeah. Anyway, so there's not a lot of space in the world for non-conformists still.
SPEAKER_02Ooh.
SPEAKER_00But back in the 70s, there was none of that. You didn't have any of the people arguing about white walkers, because first of all, everybody on TV was white.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And they were all walking around.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh except for Ironsides. That was a detective in a wheelchair. Raymond Burr.
SPEAKER_01Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_00A very large man.
SPEAKER_01Fascinating. So the the takeaway from this episode is that there was no counterculture in the 70s.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's just I don't even know. I will tell you, well, I was talking about the Waltons, and that got me on 70s TV.
SPEAKER_01I will say the mainstream stuff.
SPEAKER_00I will say that the Love Boat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I don't know it really.
SPEAKER_00Created. Oh, it was a horrible, horrible experience. Like you should just watch an episode on YouTube. You watch five minutes, you know all that you need to know.
SPEAKER_01Everything. Okay.
SPEAKER_00So what the love boat did is they provided a last hurrah for some of these old Hollywood actors to show up as guests.
SPEAKER_01Put them on the boat.
SPEAKER_00On the love boat. The same thing a little bit for Fantasy Island, but the Love Boat was really the place where they and when I would watch this show, The Love Boat, I didn't realize then that these people were once super famous.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00And that this they just seemed like, well, here's some old people.
SPEAKER_01That's I watched, I rewatched the original Muppet movie recently, which I loved as a child.
SPEAKER_00Their Muppets are getting old.
SPEAKER_01They're getting old. No, but there are all of these cameos in the Muppet movie, right? That I have no idea as a kid that any of these people were famous, you know.
SPEAKER_00I have wanted to talk about this for a long time. I just occurred to me. I have this theory.
SPEAKER_01Ooh.
SPEAKER_00I want to know what you think of it. It has nothing to do with this.
SPEAKER_01Nothing to do with the episode, but we're doing it.
SPEAKER_00And we're not sure what the episode's about yet. But I will tell you, I will tell you that I've had this theory for a long time. And that is with very few exceptions, you can meet any celebrity you want if you just wait long enough.
SPEAKER_02Ooh.
SPEAKER_00And you wait to the point where they've been forgotten.
SPEAKER_02Ooh.
SPEAKER_00And then they're glad to see you. They're glad that you're interested.
SPEAKER_01What?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. They so there's a few that are so famous.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that that's their their star will never wane enough.
SPEAKER_00Or they're so reclusive, like Greta Garbo or somebody like I don't want anybody.
SPEAKER_01Or they die young and famous. And then Well, if they die, you can't. If they die, they die.
SPEAKER_00You you're not gonna be able to get to them. No. I mean, unless you got a shovel and a lantern, you're not getting to them. But if they're still alive, like they're living at that old folks' home in California, or there's some you can get to them. That's my theory. It's like you just have to wait long enough to meet these people.
SPEAKER_01Right. We're humans are persistence predators, they say that.
SPEAKER_00But what do you think? You think that'll work?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I think I think probably a lot of times, yeah.
SPEAKER_00If you wait till they're forgotten and then they're like, oh, you remember me? Yeah, I just want to talk to you. I'm gonna buy you a donut.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they you you know, if you go when they're too famous, you have to buy them a donut. But if you wait long enough, they'll buy you the donut.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, buy me a donut, Greta Garbo.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So what happened to the Waltons formula? And by that I mean not the TV show.
SPEAKER_01Right, but the multi-generational.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, everybody living under the same house. Yeah. In the same house, under the same roof. Well, here's what happened. Because I've read up on this. Because I wanted to know what happened.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like what's the sociology here?
SPEAKER_00Number one, industrialization.
SPEAKER_01Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00With with industrialization came wage labor, which pulled people away from the home. And also the gradual loss of trades. Okay. So as we moved from an agrarian society to an industrial society, there were less people farming, and there was less farms to pass on to the kids. Because in the old days, you'd you'd have a kid, they'd work on the farm, then they'd take over the farm. Ma and Pa would still live there, do what they could, which would mainly sometimes be just looking for their teeth. Yeah. But they would do what they could, and then everybody would pitch in how they could.
SPEAKER_01They'd help look for the teeth.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, whatever the teeth thing. Sometimes you'd gate the teeth, you'd put it in the baby, it'd be a funny joke, and then everybody would fall asleep.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Good night, Ma. Good night, baby with teeth. Exactly. So, um Okay, so parents didn't have the farms to leave to their kids. They also trades went out, they didn't have a trade to teach their kids.
SPEAKER_01Right, to pass on directly.
SPEAKER_00And so there was no reason for people to stay in under in the same house anymore. There was no incentive, and there was an incentive to leave home because you could chase jobs that were paying more.
SPEAKER_01Right, okay.
SPEAKER_00So family members started to go their own ways, they created their own lives, and eventually this meant leaving their parents often hundreds or thousands of miles behind. Okay. And that became the norm. Yeah. Now, what would you think? I'm looking for your gut reaction. Okay. What would you think if I told you I knew a family who lived in a 50-room house with 14 bathrooms and 10 cars out front? What would you think? I mean, my jaw literally just dropped. Would you what would you imagine that house looked like?
SPEAKER_01McMansion.
SPEAKER_00Maybe even bigger, like a real mansion. Yeah, but not a mic. But like swanky. Swanky. Swanky. Swanky as F. Yeah. And uh you would think these people must be rich. They're loaded. Yeah. They're loaded. But then I tell you, yeah, they're doing this, but they're doing it separately.
SPEAKER_02What? What does that mean?
SPEAKER_00Because now with the way we live, we duplicate. Every person is duplicating houses and lifestyles. So what gets duplicated? Everybody's paying a rent or paying a mortgage. Everybody's got to pay insurance of some kind. Everybody's got to pay their own taxes, the maintenance, whatever that is, repairs. Everybody's got to buy their own groceries. You know, everybody's doing the thing separately.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00So in my family, there were nine people, seven kids, two parents.
SPEAKER_01That's so many kids.
SPEAKER_00Everybody in my family has done this. We've all have our separate place.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00We are all paying mortgage or rent.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00We all are paying insurance and taxes, and we all have to work to do all these things. And it's all being done separately. So I started thinking about it, and it's like, that sounds dumb.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's like you're living in a big mansion separately.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. I see what you mean. I see what you're saying. Yeah, well, it's like it's so much harder. I have lived alone, I have lived with roommates, I have lived with family. It is so much harder to get ingredients and things to cook for one, right? Where you don't have to buy too much of something and the rest expires, or what do you do? We're not set up for that.
SPEAKER_00If you look in my pantry right now, and I hope that you will.
SPEAKER_01I hope you do.
SPEAKER_00What you will find are extra sacks of pine nuts. Pine nuts. And this, and you know, I use pine nuts to make pesto. Right. But that's all I use them for. Right. And when I'm making pesto, I think, and I'm at the store getting fresh basil and so on and so forth, some cheese, whatever. Yes, like what you said, also cheese. Yeah. I s I'm wondering.
SPEAKER_01Right. Do I have pine nuts? Do I? I better get some more pine nuts.
SPEAKER_00So then I get more pine nuts. Okay. So to me, this is the pine nut problem. It's the symptomatic of this whole problem is that so we have this duplication. So now I have extra, I have so much pine. I have pine nuts that will, you know, it'd be enough for a fallout.
SPEAKER_01These pine nuts will outlive you.
SPEAKER_00Pine nuts last.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00They don't go bad.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I feel like we're we duplicate all of this thing to create our little spaces wherever they are, right? Away from each other. And it's all sort of uh artifactual. It was like it's an artifact of what happened when the world changed and it became more industrialized. Right. And now we think that that's the norm. Right. So in my head, the fact that all seven of us are paying our own mortgage and rent right now, that's normal.
SPEAKER_01That's normal. That's expected, at least in this country.
SPEAKER_00If we could go back somehow, I'm not saying the Waltons thing would work.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Would not work in my house.
SPEAKER_01In a lot of ways.
SPEAKER_00But if we could go back and save some of this money, because we're living in a time where a lot of people, there's no way they can even afford rent in some cities.
SPEAKER_01Including Portland for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and they certainly can't afford a house. Yeah. So home ownership is out of reach for so many people. And and the people that are living in homes, they're like working their brains out to pay for all the expenses. And a lot of times, even with remote stuff, there's still people that have to do commutes, totally. Put up with the crappy bosses because they can't afford not to.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00And it's like, why are we doing this? And I this really this was I wasn't thinking about the podcast or anything. I was just like, wow, this seems kind of dumb. And if there was a way for us to to roll it back a little bit, we could save a lot of that money and be spending it on what? Joy. Luxuries. Joy. We could be purchasing more joy, even if it just meant more free time. Also, when people live together, when families live together, you have built-in care for aging parents and children. On this show, exactly. On this show, we have talked about Jamie and I talked about like aging parents, and then when they live far away, that's a whole thing. Like you got to drop everything, you got to go out to where they are, try to find out what their problems are, try to solve them, and you gotta go all the way back to home and you don't really have the time and the money and the and all of it to like the resources emotional and and financial to really help them. But if you're living in the same space, like the Waltons, but not exactly like that, right, because that won't work. No. I would uh my parent would have choked. But but if you could figure out a way to do it, also uh kids, yeah, child care is insane. Yeah. Oh my god. Thousands and thousands of dollars to put your to park your kid in a like a cardboard box for six hours, and somebody is dangling a carrot in front of them, yeah, and that's child care, and that's like ten thousand dollars. They may do more than that. I don't know what they do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I don't know what they do.
SPEAKER_01Well, if you want them to do more than that, you have to pay more.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You want them like to chase your kid around a little bit, scare them away.
SPEAKER_01You want them to dangle some celery? That's extra.
SPEAKER_00I think kids should be chased a little. A little, not in a harmful way, just a light chasing. It's good for a child. I like to see kids scared a little bit, you know, just to get their blood pumping.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Because a lot of kids, you know, they're in their own, they're in a car seat, they're in a bubble, they're wearing pads, they got helmets on.
SPEAKER_01I look at that kid, I go, that's a kid that's never been chased.
SPEAKER_00That we gotta chase the kid, and when a kid's being chased, there's a good chance they're gonna fall down. They might skin a knee.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's true.
SPEAKER_00I used to fall down so much I actually got like a lifetime scar on my knee. So all this money is being spent to create separate lives. It I just wanna do you think it's weird that most of the money that we work so hard to make is spent to live separate lives?
SPEAKER_01I mean, when you put it that way, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I know that it would be hard for me to live with my siblings under the same roof. But I know I could do it if it was set up a certain way.
SPEAKER_01You have your space to retreat to. Why shouldn't there be these shared spaces?
SPEAKER_00Some people are couch surfing, but they've got their own little couch space.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_00And by the way, that is my retirement plan.
SPEAKER_01I'll keep I'll keep a couch cleared for you, Ross.
SPEAKER_00I my goal is to meet enough people who will let me sleep on their couch for three consecutive nights and just keep moving around.
SPEAKER_01Just like a shark, always keep moving.
SPEAKER_00Like a shark. So like a yeah, so I'll sleep or I'll die. I'll sleep like a shark on your couch for three nights, and then I'll move on to the next victim.
SPEAKER_01You are gonna meet a lot of babies to put your teeth in their mouth.
SPEAKER_00That's a comment that's gonna stand on its own merit. So the pandemic has taught us, some of us that living at home is a lot cheaper. Like doing work from home, so you're not buying the outfits.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, if you're able to, it's yeah.
SPEAKER_00You're not spending the gas money, you're whatever, getting to the place, you're not, you know, jacking around all day, somebody else is building and doing all that stuff. Okay. So that's cool. A lot of us like it. Some of us don't, some of us don't have the option, but those of there's a lot of us that like it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So I think if you each had your little tiny space, I love it. You could have a general area, but also the tiny space would be equipped with everything that you need. You've interviewed it. Like a tiny house.
SPEAKER_01A commune.
SPEAKER_00Well, yes. So, and they were actually around the world, people are actually starting to build spaces like this where multiple either families or um just a lot of people.
SPEAKER_01As a group, you go in on a lot of land and you Yeah, it doesn't even have to be a lot of land, but I'm sorry, I mean a lot as in a like a selection.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you actually have ownership of some parcel of you have uh fractional ownership, you have your own space, so if you you have your own egress and ingress, so you don't actually have to see anybody if you don't want to. Yeah. But you're not paying for the whole thing.
SPEAKER_01Right. It's you're sharing everything.
SPEAKER_00And since everybody is there that you either you're friends with or they're your actual family or your acquired family, if somebody gets sick or somebody needs something, there's help right there. Right. There's people that care about you right there, and they don't have to drop their whole life to check in on you.
SPEAKER_01So there's something about not even necessarily multi-generational living, although, as you pointed out, that does provide elderly care and child care, so that's great. But something just about group living in general.
SPEAKER_00Right. It's it's yeah, not all families can pull this off.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00You know.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00I mean, maybe the Manson family, but I mean, most families are not psychologically set up to do this, at least initially. But I think this could be a new norm. If we have separate spaces, to me, that's the key. Everybody can spend as much time being a hermit from their group as they want. Right. But there is a community space.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So if they want to have a birthday party or they want to do anything, you can get together. Yeah. But everybody has their own space. They can cook for them, they can shop for themselves. And you've seen these tiny homes, you know, they're small, but you know they got everything you need. They got everything you need. And if you had a common space, that would give you a place where hey, I just clubhouse.
SPEAKER_01A clubhouse. A clubhouse.
SPEAKER_00Wanted a clubhouse. Do they make clubhouses anymore?
SPEAKER_01Not like they used to.
SPEAKER_00Do kids even have time for clubhouses?
SPEAKER_01I don't know. They got a lot of schoolwork. They got a lot of Pokemon Go to do.
SPEAKER_00I don't I've never seen I don't know. I know as a parent, when my one kid was little, I th wanted to make her get her a clubhouse, basically.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And there was this thing you could buy online and you buy all the wood and the designhouse kit. And you make it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so all this wood showed up and it was impossible. Like the yeah, it was like the directions, like three directions.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like IKEA from hell.
SPEAKER_00It was like step one, build the clubhouse.
SPEAKER_01Step two, enjoy the clubhouse.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Step two, uh, go to the hospital. Yeah. Because you just hit yourself with a nail gun. So uh I quickly figured out this was over my skill set. This is above my pay grade. So I hired somebody to help me build this clubhouse.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And it was really nice, it was a nice one. There was like a slide and there was like cool stuff, and it was like double decker. And you know, it took a while actually to get it done. And we finally get it done, and my kid plays in it for like three days.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And they're like, this isn't really what I want.
SPEAKER_01Can I have the box from the clubhouse? Can I turn the box into a pirate ship?
SPEAKER_00This is true for this is a whole thing about parenting, anyway. It's like all this junk that you know you give your kid, they end up like not being that interested. It's like you're interested in it for them.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00So in this case, in this case, she says, What I really want is a tree house. You know, like an old-fashioned tree house, like a simple tree house. So we got her, we built her a tree house.
SPEAKER_01And then she spent four days in it.
SPEAKER_00No, she liked the tree house until I think some bees moved in.
SPEAKER_01I mean, that's fair.
SPEAKER_00But she did spend much more time in that than she did in the the upscale super clubhouse.
SPEAKER_01The club mansion.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that nobody wanted. Right. Um, but that uh just another sidebar. I'm sorry, it's a tangent. But advice to parents out there with little kids don't spend any money on them until they have a memory. Good to know. A lasting memory.
SPEAKER_01I don't have kids, but if I have kids, I will I will recall this advice.
SPEAKER_00Well, I you know, I remember like I took back when people would go to the circus before it became like the house of abuse. House of animal abuse. So it was like actually a thing that you would do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so I would like pay extra to get like close up so my little kid, four-year-old kid, could see close and have a clown experience that would scar her for life.
SPEAKER_01So um, they just don't make scarring childhood clown experiences like they used to.
SPEAKER_00If you're being chased by a scary clown, that builds character.
SPEAKER_01There you go. That's a kid that's been chased.
SPEAKER_00And I, by the way, I would pay to see that. So any that make a circus of that and I'll show up.
SPEAKER_01Set it to the Yakity Sax team shop.
SPEAKER_00So, you know, you take you spend money on your kids and they get to have this front row experience. She doesn't remember it. No.
SPEAKER_01I mean, in fairness, I would repress that too.
SPEAKER_00They don't, but they don't remember any of the things. What they remember is anything that went wrong. True. And they'll remind you of that.
SPEAKER_01Until you die.
SPEAKER_00Remember that time when you poked my eye out with a flaming marshmallow?
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. Kid won't shut up about it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they remember that junk and they keep working you over with it. So people think, well, this is this possible because the jobs are everywhere and you've got it. Well, now with all the remote stuff, maybe not. Maybe this could be a thing. Yeah. And in they actually are, some communities are starting to build this kind of housing, not just in this country, but other countries where multi-generational living has always been a thing, or it's becoming more of a thing where it's starting to grow. And and I think that it's mostly out of necessity. But then I'm thinking, like, well, doesn't it make sense?
SPEAKER_01Right, doesn't it have its benefits?
SPEAKER_00And why can't we design more living like this? Because now you might not be able to afford the whole building, but you can afford a fraction of the building.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Because that's so much less freight that you've got to carry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We're all living in spread-out mansions. So you have people spread out all over the place in our own little worlds that they've had to work really hard for and spend all this money.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And have all these extra pine nuts.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then so now you go and you got to spend money to visit them. Like it's a whole thing. Like, well, I'm going to wherever to visit these guys and see what pine nuts they have. Right. And so that's going to cost. So that's more money you're spending to visit these people.
SPEAKER_01Instead of just going downstairs to the living room.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Or knocking on their little their the the the triple padlock door that they have between your space and their space, you know, and the hearing them turn all the latches.
SPEAKER_01Well, you can't hear it because of the intense soundproofing that they've installed.
SPEAKER_00Soundproofing. Oh man, I would definitely do soundproofing. I don't want anybody listening to me. I'm very noisy.
SPEAKER_01That's fair.
SPEAKER_00Uh so I don't want to hear you. So thank you. Thank you. I do not want to be heard. Yeah. I don't I do not want to be held accountable for the things that I'm screaming.
SPEAKER_01I would like to not in my space. If you want to be perceived.
SPEAKER_00So I yes, I don't thank you. I would like, please, I would like not to be perceived.
SPEAKER_01At this time?
SPEAKER_00You know, if you don't like being perceived, the best place to go is to a uh ticket counter at an airport. They will not perceive you there.
SPEAKER_01That's true. That's amazing. How little you will be perceived.
SPEAKER_00You will not be perceived. I've actually asked people uh in those situations where they're just keep working and they don't see me. Yeah, I will actually say, Hey, can you see me right now?
SPEAKER_01Am I real?
SPEAKER_00Because I just need to know if you can see me.
SPEAKER_01Sometimes I phase out of existence. Is this one of those times?
SPEAKER_00So I really think this could be a thing. Multi-generational living.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I like it.
SPEAKER_00But it's gotta have those bound those tight boundaries so people aren't um It's gotta be opt-in, right?
SPEAKER_01Like when you're in that situation, the the time you spend together has to be opt-in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and you could live like I have a uh sibling who's kind of estranged and he doesn't like to deal with most of us, but he could be perfectly happy. Yeah. Like he doesn't have to deal with. He can be in the shed out back. But he's just part that's not a shed. There's no shed. There's no shed, I'm sorry. Come on. There's no shed. Everybody's got their own little space. Then he can have a shed. Okay. But you know, my feeling is that if we had if we weren't all duplicating these experiences, then it would give us a lot more freedom about how we spend our time in terms of our work life, the kinds of jobs we do. Just think about that. If you're if the cost of living was significantly reduced, say by 80%. Jesus. Because if we're sharing a multi-generational space and you need some pine nuts, I've got them.
SPEAKER_01You've got pine nuts.
SPEAKER_00You don't even you could say, oh crap, I'm making pesto, I forgot the pine nuts. You could knock on my soundproof triple architect. You would have to do like a lighting. There must be a light signal, maybe that blinks a blinking. Some kind of signal. Or you could call me and say, Pine nuts.
SPEAKER_01Call me. Bring the pine.
SPEAKER_00And then there would be like a slot where I could drop some pine nuts. Right.
SPEAKER_01But only the pine nut slot. We've all seen them.
SPEAKER_00I would just drop the amount that you needed. Or maybe I'd send a baby over with some pine nuts.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_00Baby delivery. A baby delivery system.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What do you think? Is this a thing we're going to do? I really like it.
SPEAKER_01And I really I do think that one of the big stressors or problems in the United States today is this individualistic uh ideal that we have in general. I think it's also one of the reasons that our pandemic response was so shit in a lot of ways, because you tell people you need to mask because it protects other people, and they go, I don't really care about protecting other people. I care about protecting me.
SPEAKER_00Obviously, we're living in a matrix of dependency.
SPEAKER_01Thank you.
SPEAKER_00We can't do anything without the next person. We I couldn't do this podcast without you.
SPEAKER_01I couldn't, I couldn't be on this podcast without you making it, Roger.
SPEAKER_00See, we're in a matrix of dependency.
SPEAKER_01We are. I'm glad to have you to depend upon it.
SPEAKER_00And pine nuts.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00The pine nuts. Do you even know what a pine nut is? It's a nut. You don't even know. I don't know what a pine nut is.
SPEAKER_01I've made pesto. Um not as frequently as it sounds like you do, but I have made pesto.
SPEAKER_00You have a sister.
SPEAKER_01I have two.
SPEAKER_00You have two sisters.
SPEAKER_01I have I have two sisters, and then my middle sister's best friend has basically been adopted by our family and is also my sister.
SPEAKER_00But she's a whole person.
SPEAKER_01She's a whole person.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Could you all live in the same space? Walton style.
SPEAKER_01We I as long as we had our places to retreat to when we needed solo time, I think so. Because we'll go on vacation together, all of us, for a week, ten days, and we have a blast. You know, we do we do well. Obviously, vacation is its own thing. But it but I do think that if we if we had our solo spots to retreat to, then yes, we would live together well. And my parents are both really good cooks, so I could like get them to cook me stuff. Well, and that's the other thing is like to bake, I make people cookies.
SPEAKER_00We've talked before about old people, you know, as they get old. I'm not saying your parents are old, but let's face it.
SPEAKER_01I'm gonna tell them to listen to this episode so they can hear you and call them old.
SPEAKER_00Let's get to the truth of it. But anyway, um, I mean, they need to know. Unless somebody needs to like let's come on, let's have an intervention, all right? With these parents.
SPEAKER_01I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00I'm sorry you're old. Uh so uh that whole thing with the teeth and the baby, it's not funny anymore. Yeah, you've been called old, you've been called out as old. This is the new canceling. So um uh what now? So your parents, yeah. The cool thing about older people, as they get older, they are looking for ways to be more valuable. You know, like what else can I do? And a lot of I know people who like as soon as their kid has a kid, they they are like, I'm I'm dropping everything.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that kid is my life now.
SPEAKER_00I am moving to wherever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I'm gonna live and I'm gonna be full-time grandparent and I'm gonna watch the kids all day. And that's really cool, right? So that if they want to do that now, like me, no. Okay, I still got a little something going on. But you know, I get it.
SPEAKER_01Well, until I was four, we lived very close to my grandmother, and she would watch me during the day while my parents were working.
SPEAKER_00And that's the thing. I think that is so cool, and that's such a gift.
SPEAKER_01I'll tell you what, it was so good. I even remember things from it that are not bad trauma things. There weren't bad trauma things. I'm just thinking back to when you were like kids under the age of four only remember bad trauma things. I remember good things because it was good.
SPEAKER_00Did your grandmother ever dress up like a clown and choose you?
SPEAKER_01She did not. That I remember, maybe I repressed it. I'm sorry, Grandma.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, grandma, you were a slacker.
SPEAKER_01No, no, she was the best.
SPEAKER_00She was the best.
SPEAKER_01She was the best.
SPEAKER_00She was the best.
SPEAKER_01Anyway, you had a quote. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00I have a quote from an old person. And well, uh I mean elderly, older, older person, okay, seasoned.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_0080-year-old Rita.
SPEAKER_01Hi, Rita.
SPEAKER_00She's living at home with her family, like the Waltons. And that she did it as an experiment to see, and she says it works because they get on well, they eat together around twice a week.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00She's got her own space, so it's not every day, but twice a week. They have a little meal.
SPEAKER_01That's nice.
SPEAKER_00They help each other, and she says, and I quote, I can pick up the children from school, by the way, 80 years old. Still driving. Still driving. What's it like? Gonna be like uh one of those uh off-road, what is it called? Monster trucks.
SPEAKER_01Oh, there you go.
SPEAKER_00Is she doing a monster truck?
SPEAKER_01Monster truck grandma.
SPEAKER_00Monster truck grandma.
SPEAKER_01Coming soon to CBS.
SPEAKER_00Like totally tailgating you, and you're like so pissed off, and you think it's somebody with their baseball cap on backwards.
SPEAKER_01It's just a sweet little grandma.
SPEAKER_00It's just grandma, and she can't see.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I'm terribly sorry. So high up. I'm off my rocker.
SPEAKER_00And all old people talk like that. I can I can pick up the children from school sometimes or do the washing or the ironing. Sounds like she's uh kind of a day laborer to me. But she goes, for me, it's a big advantage to be in a house which has got noise in it. I've got company and I'm not on my own anymore.
SPEAKER_01I get that. I lived alone for a couple months. I did not like it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Again, I don't think you should have to drop your entire life to go live.
SPEAKER_01Of course not.
SPEAKER_00It's great if you want to and that gives you joy. If it works out, but wouldn't it be great if that was just built in?
SPEAKER_01Like we just Yeah, like a normalized option.
SPEAKER_00And there wasn't all this shame about returning home because you didn't ever leave home, really.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00You just all you did is graduate to your own private space. There you go. In the home, and you still have your family. Your family is really the people who are gonna stick with you. Yeah. You know, when you do the crimes and stuff. They're gonna they're gonna be the ones that will be still talk to you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00When you talk to your sister if she did some kind of horrible crime, would you still given? Yeah. Would you would you play like board games with her?
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like in jail? Yeah. Like you uh it'd be like a board game conjugal thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, through the through the little glass thing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you guys would play what game would you play when she's in prison?
SPEAKER_01I feel like Battleship would work well if I can get them to bring the board around the glass thing. Because then you each have your own board, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm sorry your sister's in prison. Thanks. But I'm glad you're making the most of it. And it's cool that you want to play board games with her.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00I think a lot of prisoners would want to play board games. So think about that.
SPEAKER_01Our prison industrial complex is hell.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It needs more board games. That would solve a lot of the problems.
SPEAKER_02Clearly.
SPEAKER_00Well, thanks, Madeline, for talking to me about everybody living. I think the Walton experience can be recreated.
SPEAKER_02I think we can make it work.
SPEAKER_00We can make it modern.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. You can still make it modern, make it chic.
SPEAKER_00You can still be totally independent from everybody. You can still have your own life because you have your own door in and out. That's the key.
SPEAKER_01That is the key.
SPEAKER_00You don't have to see anybody you don't want to see.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00And uh, but if you need somebody, they're right there.
SPEAKER_01They're there. I love that.
SPEAKER_00Thanks everyone for joining us. If you like what we're doing, uh please help us by sharing the show. Follow the show on Instagram and send us a note of encouragement. We don't get paid for doing this. No. But we get paid by your love. Your love is enough for us.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00Uh, you can chat with us that way, you can share the show, as I say, is a really cool way to support us, and you don't actually have to talk to us that way. You can support us on Patreon because we will accept money to help us put this show on. And we appreciate you very much. And we appreciate that you listen every week. And we hope you will tune in to another episode because whether you are building your parents a tiny house in your basement or just someone on a love boat binge bender, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans. Goodbye, everybody.
SPEAKER_01Good night, Rossboy.
SPEAKER_00Good night, baby toast Johnson.