SPEAKER_00 0:00

I want to be a mall jewelry store that has that as the slogan. Diamonds! The beginning of the end.

SPEAKER_02 0:07

I feel that.

SPEAKER_00 0:09

You want to hear her say, oh shit. Welcome to another episode of Smells Like Humans. This is the podcast where we explore the curious things that people do, the very human things that grab our attention, and cause us to wonder what and why. I'm Ross, your host, and today I have two special guests. First, the talented, intelligent, and always marvelous Hannah. Hello, Hannah. Hello. And another bright light, the spirited, wise, and our personal pan therapist, Tracy. Welcome, Tracy.

SPEAKER_07 0:48

Oh, thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

We're glad to have you both and welcome everyone. Friends, you can help us by sharing this show with your friends and loved ones. It really helps us grow the show. We're totally independent, we have no sponsors, and we appreciate your help. And at the end, I will share some other ways you can help us. But let's get started. One thing we know about humans: we have a tradition of giving and receiving gifts. As far back as cave culture, people were exchanging gifts. But some of us are not so good at giving gifts or not so good at receiving gifts. It's not easy, and not all of us can pull it off, at least all the time. And some of us find that gift-giving experiences are stressful or sometimes less than completely satisfying. So in a lot of situations, a gift represents a symbol of a shared connection with another human. Uh, of course, there are many reasons that people give gifts, and I want to start right away with Hannah. Are you a better gift giver or receiver?

SPEAKER_05 2:00

Okay. So there are lots of caveats here. I was thinking about this, and I'm a better, if I just short answer, I'm a better gift receiver than giver. Major however. However, the gifts that I do give when I give a gift, it may not be on time. It may not be for any particular holiday that may have required a gift. So it may be socially a little tone-deaf. Right. But that gift is gonna be heartfelt, relevant, kind, and like very authentic in its motives. So I want to defend myself as a gift giver while also holding space for the shame of not like, oh, it's Mother's Day this weekend. My Mother's Day ritual is like, is like texting my mom saying, like, it's not gonna be there on Sunday. And I love you. But when I do send something, when I do get the time to sit down and make my postcard or make my collage or make this or pick a Mary Oliver poem to send to her, like it's gonna be lovely. It's going to be heartfelt, but it's not gonna be time relevant. Okay. Necessarily. I receive a gift well. I welcome gifts, particularly food and experience. Yeah, yeah. Food and experience gifts. Right. All about it. Quality time is like a gift. Like I can tell we're gonna talk about love languages potentially in this conversation.

SPEAKER_00 3:29

It's gonna come up.

SPEAKER_05 3:30

Yes, but okay, so short answer better at receiving them simply because I seem to receive lovely gifts from the people that love me.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

What happens if you get a gift that you don't like? Are you good at receiving it?

SPEAKER_05 3:43

There's one particular story where this exact thing happened. I got a piece of artwork. Oh, that sounds good. I know. Somebody was this was like, this was a previous partner of mine, too. So it's like stakes are high with like this person's giving me a gift. And this artwork, unbeknownst to me, had a personal connection story for them. It was relevant for them. It was heartfelt for them, and they wanted to share this piece of art with me. And uh I'll be fully honest, like, I didn't say anything at first. It was not to my taste.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Okay, so it wasn't to your taste. Uh what what what was the subject of the art? Can you say?

SPEAKER_05 4:21

Yes. And I uh yes it was so long story short, and what came out eventually in so many words was like, this looks like a preschooler did it. This looks like one of my second graders, bless their hearts, like no, no lack of love, but like, I drew this for you, Miss Hannah. Yeah, and it's and so like, am I gonna put this up on my wall? And what it came down to was like, listen, you have the personal story with this piece of art. You have the personal connection where it was in a cafe that that where you had many important conversations and you felt your own heart and hooray. This was a gift that you were trying to share a story with me. You were trying to share an emotion with me, which I receive, which I love. I am pretty proud with how this became a slight sticking point during a portion of our relationship where there was other stuff going on and we were headed towards probably our breakup eventually anyway. So it was just real fraught to say, like, what because he brought it up later, being like, I don't, you don't really like you don't really I I don't think you actually it's true. I don't I look at that and I think that's on the fridge, and that's something that a toddler made for me. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:29

Now, did he make it?

SPEAKER_05 5:31

No, it wasn't something that he made. I would have been more tactful had it been something that he made. I promise. No, he had he had purchased it because he recognized the the artist. So, long story short, what I ended up doing was like, well, we had this conversation where I tried where I had apologized and was like, Liz, it's just not my thing. It feels like you bought yourself a gift and then transferred its meaning to me and wanted me to emotionally be connected with it in the same way you were. I think this gift is for you.

SPEAKER_06 5:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 6:00

And so I put it in a frame, I wrapped it, and I gave it back to him.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

It puts the capital R in re-gift when you give it back to the person who gives it to you. That is I've never- Major re-gifter. It seems that one important distinction between someone who's good at giving gifts and one who's not so good, or when the experience goes well and it doesn't go well, is whether the person is tuned in to whoever they're giving the gift to versus tuned in, more tuned in to themselves.

SPEAKER_05 6:33

And how they want to feel about being a gift giver. Right, right. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

All right, Tracy. How about you? Are you a good gift giver or a good receiver or none of the above, or what's your what's your deal?

SPEAKER_07 6:44

Both.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

Wow. You are the unicorn.

SPEAKER_07 6:47

I really enjoy gift giving.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 6:51

And I really enjoy gift receiving. I do. It's it's such an um and I also really enjoy good gift receivers.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

Right.

SPEAKER_07 7:06

And so one of the things that I want to do is be a good gift receiver. Because I want to give the gift of being a good gift receiver to the gift giver. You're a major modeler. That's meta.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

That's so meta. It's like I'm giving you're giving me a gift and I'm giving you a gift.

SPEAKER_07 7:23

Yes. Well, because it's such a communication opportunity. It is, right? And an opportunity for connection. And I don't know. I'm not going to say a bid for connection. I'm just going to say the same thing. It is a bid for connection. And you you want to um when someone's giving you a bid for connection, it's a it's a vulnerable spot. And so you want to invite them to be vulnerable with you. So you want to be warm and open to that. Now, I am sure I have missed the boat on this at times, right? Like I'm not saying I'm perfect at it, but that is certainly something I strive for and want to be very present for when some someone's giving me something. I'm like, oh, I want to take the moment to be present for this and be here for you and and really enjoy this moment because that's the fun of it.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

What a what a cool thing that you use the word present to give that answer to that.

SPEAKER_07 8:14

Oh, look at that. It wasn't even on purpose.

SPEAKER_00 8:16

I know, that's why I loved it. So uh I know a little bit about your history. Yeah. So I'm gonna ask a presumptuous question. Go on. I am wondering if this presence, yeah, uh, in terms of being tuned into people and being a good gift giver and receiver has anything to do with growing up in a household with a narcissist.

SPEAKER_07 8:38

Of course. Everything does. Yeah. Runs deep. Runs real deep, apparently. It does. You know, so one of the things so I was an only child some listeners may remember. I was an only child with a narcissistic mother and a distant father. So um and my mother, the narcissist, really liked buying me things.

SPEAKER_06 9:05

Right.

SPEAKER_07 9:05

And she really, really, really liked um presenting me in the things that she'd bought for me.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

So what does that mean, presenting you?

SPEAKER_07 9:16

So when I was little, yeah, Hannah just made up a motion, a gesture. I was like, yes, that gesture. The handout. Anyway, it's this is not visual. So um there was this uh clothing store in this little town uh down from the town we lived in, and it was like a fancy clothing store. And my mom liked to take me there and have me try a million things on and come out of the dressing room and kind of walk through the store. It would be. Yeah, you know, a whole lot of Izod, La Costa. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Um, you look like a little uh yuppie.

SPEAKER_07 9:58

Oh, you I get you. You can't even imagine. I had monogrammed crew neck sweaters. Are you a pop in the collar when you're gonna be able to do it? I was totally pop in the collar. Okay, that's what I wanted to do. I had the preppy handbook. This was important to my mom. Um keep in mind, keep in mind, I refused to wear dresses. Okay. I didn't fancy was not my thing. Jeans, t-shirts, sneakers were my thing. And so she would buy all these things, she would parade me, buy these things, she would take them home. I wouldn't want most of them. I was like, I would like one polo shirt and a new pair of jeans, please. Like and some kids. But you probably had to be grateful and act as if you received a gift. Absolutely, because that's how you got love. Yep. Right? Was being grateful for that. And so then I'd come home. We'd come home with multiple bags of things, and then my dad would come home from work and they'd have a big argument, and then my mom would have to take everything back.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Oh no!

SPEAKER_07 10:58

Ouch.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

That's so much work. Oof. So many bad things going on there.

SPEAKER_07 11:02

So many bad things going on there. I just had to side with her. Yeah, you had to align everything. I had to align with her when she'd come in my room and be like, so we're gonna have to take all those things back because dad says we can't keep them.

SPEAKER_05 11:14

All those things you were so thankful for that I so graciously got for you.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

That gives me stress just thinking about little Tracy having to carry that all that emotional burden.

SPEAKER_05 11:26

To be in that, in that drama, to be in that piece. Oh man, parents that's a piece.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Putting your kids in the drama. Right. Parents, if you're if you're a parent out there right now, just take your kid off the cast list, okay? They're not in your drama.

SPEAKER_07 11:39

For real. They're not so nine-year-old me on the inside gets really rage-filled sometimes. In fact, this past week she was very rage-filled about a lot of things, the world and other whatnots. But um, she shows up sometimes and she's like, I'm like, why am I so ragygy? I'm like, oh, the nine-year-old's mad. Um, and she gets real mad about that stuff. But um what I realized was that getting and giving gifts can be enjoyable. So as I grew up, and I um decided to own that for myself. So I was like, I don't want it to be like that. I want it to feel different. I wanted to give just something that was thoughtful and kind and heartfelt, like you were talking about, that someone would know I thought about you without it being over the top. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

Mm-hmm. Right, right. Yeah, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_07 12:27

And I also wanted to receive it in a way that felt connected, not as a performance.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Right.

SPEAKER_07 12:33

What's your thing? Are you a better gift giver or gift receiver?

SPEAKER_00 12:36

Well, for uh the many of the same reasons that you are good at both. I'm I'm pretty good gift giver. I've had a few hiccups over the years, you know, but I'm pretty good at it, but I'm a great receiver. Even if the gift is horrifying, like some bad toddler art. I will I am so authentic. I'm a good actor. Yes, I can act my way around any bullshit present that I get.

SPEAKER_07 13:01

Well, you grew up in a family, were you? You know?

SPEAKER_00 13:03

Right. Well, first of all, so so to be clear, I love getting gifts. I just like the idea of it. But I know what to do.

SPEAKER_06 13:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Because I watched my father do it wrong his whole life. Because my father, without getting into it, never had an unspoken thought.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

And he always said exactly what he felt. So on the one hand, it sounds pretty cool. But at gift giving time, so one time, just one example out of a lifetime of examples, uh, my mother decided to get him an expensive camera because he was a bit of an amateur photographer or fancied himself as such. So she got a pretty nice camera, and we were all excited for him. He was gonna open this up and he was gonna go, Wow! And we all the kids were like wanting this moment. And he opens up the package, it's his birthday. He opens up the package, he sees the camera, he goes, What's this? You bought the wrong camera!

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Oh, and everybody just crash and burn.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

So, so after having observed that up close and personal, I said, I am never gonna do that to anyone. They can buy me the worst thing that you know you can think of. Uh, and I am going to give them the joy. So, what I do, so for example, for Christmas, one of my sisters gave me towels. I didn't ask for towels, but that was cool. She gave me a present and it was towels. So, what I did is I immediately contact her and say, man, these towels are freaking awesome.

SPEAKER_05 14:38

They I dab my skin, they dry my hands. Yeah, they're like totally a love a towel. It's utilitarian. You can dab it. It's necessary. There's not gonna be a person on the planet that says, you know what, don't need a towel. They may have enough towels already. Right. But that's a that's a pretty good, I don't know, from where I'm sitting, that sounds like a great gift.

SPEAKER_00 14:58

It was a good gift.

SPEAKER_05 14:59

If anybody wants to get me a set of towels, I am in.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

It's you you are on the list for towels. So, uh, and there's people listening all over the world to send you towels. Um, I but not only that, but then I put the towels on the little towel bar and I take a picture and send it to her saying, Look how good they look. Oh, you're good. Yeah, no. And I and it's not so I did like getting the towels, but I it didn't it doesn't matter what it is. I am really, really pleased to get it because I'm grateful that they did something.

SPEAKER_05 15:34

Yeah. Um, for me, it's much more about who am I experiencing this with and what can we make this mean? And what kind of conversations do we have while we're on this long hike for our weekend away. That to me feels like like gift, like gift giving, actually, actually receiving the gift of the moment with the people that I care about. That's the experience. That's a great and so that could that experience could be something that like costs something or costs nothing at all. Just who's gonna drive us to the trailhead or who's gonna drive us to the beach, what have you. Um so the experiences that I crave that it feel like gifts to me are really just like talk about be presence, right? Like time and one's presence and just the the mutual acknowledgement that like sharing these eight hours together is a relief for us, whatever we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 16:19

Yeah, and I think it's uh to me, it feels like a much more thoughtful expression when you're saying, hey, I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna be with you, I'm gonna give you the gift of my time and I'm gonna be invested in something with you. We're gonna do this. But there are people out there who would get that gift and feel like, what a cheapskate.

SPEAKER_05 16:36

Totally, right? It plays it plays to my strengths and it plays to my heart and what helps me feel more connected. And thankfully, you know, as as I as I grow, right, like the people that I surround myself with, the relationships that I have, they get that more and more. Right. And we're more and more on the same page with that being our gift-giving language.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

Because you're telling people this is what I like.

SPEAKER_05 16:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

In various ways. You let them know. So people that are close to you know, like this is how we can make happy.

SPEAKER_05 17:03

Um, but I'm trying to just have more like consumable things that I'm not spending money on, things that I made myself, things that as you receive them, they're you're like, oh, Hannah's kombucha or Hannah's pickles, or like something that can just sit in the cupboard for a little while and then you go, bing, oh, it's my friend. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 17:19

Well, which makes me think, I mean, it speaks so much to the um gift you got from your past partner that was tone-deaf. He he wasn't giving what felt good to you, which spoke to he wasn't giving a gift to your heart. Well, it's it's interesting. It makes me think I um a past partner. I um it was one Christmas, and I got a bunch of like little things. Like I think I got him like one like bigger gift that I knew he wanted, and then got a few like silly, funny, like thoughtful or just like small things, right? And um he got me one really nice expensive gift, um which uh is very nice and not at all what I wanted. Right? It it was it's like, you know, uh those diamond earrings are beautiful. You don't have to spend money on me for me to feel like the gift landed.

SPEAKER_05 18:15

That's playing into the cultural story of what gift giving is, right? That like I want to give you what I've been told is something that will validate our relationship, or I want to give you something that will make me feel like and and bless their hearts, right? Like we we don't know better until we actually like mindfully practice being like, huh, what's that all about? But like to give especially jewelry, especially in like a hetero relationship for the for the dude to give jewelry. And they're beautiful, lovely, right? And that's more to be like I I feel like that is a move that asks the outside world to to validate you, to be like, I am this, right? I'm the kind of guy that gives diamond earrings, right? And then you play the role of somebody who's like, oh, diamond earrings, right? Yeah. Oh, it might be more useful if I like make Hannah a beautiful dinner or something like that. But I get the m the move, and I watched my parents do this, where my dad would would try and ride the line between like between like gift giving that was like like tr like traditional, I'll say, for lack of a better word, like diamonds, jewelry, sparkly things that cost money, etc. Was valued at a certain time, still is in a major way. And and just what you are then supposed to feel.

SPEAKER_07 19:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 19:29

And when you when you already chafe at that, like what you're supposed to feel, to get a gift like that to me feels like a more like a just tone deaf. So great. Yeah, yeah. Like very well said. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

So yeah, I think that was a good summary of what I want to focus on next. But I should say for our listening audience that interestingly, Hannah is here in a ball gown. I don't know if she's wearing a tiara, but whatever.

SPEAKER_03 19:59

She looks beautiful. Thank you very much for the day wear.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

I think yes, it's like I just don't like that sort of a thing. Where are my opera glasses? Um, so um that was well said, and it goes to why I think it is stressful for some people to give gifts, especially to people they care about, because it's like they want to get it right.

SPEAKER_07 20:18

Yeah, and baggage.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

There's so much. I typed in gift giving advice into our friend Google, and there was 337 million articles. Great, yes, great. That's a lot of advice.

SPEAKER_07 20:30

It is.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

That means a lot of people are struggling with this. And I read a handful of these articles. So you know what it means. I know just enough to be dangerous. So, but basically, I boiled it down to what I said in the beginning, which is are we tuned in to the person or are we tuned in more to ourselves and what it means for us? So one mistake that people make is they're just not paying close enough attention to what the person really values and what they like and what they express about their life. We may know somebody who like likes gardening, okay? So we want to work, we're gonna give them a gardening gift.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

But we don't really pay attention to what sort of gardening they do or what they need. Yeah, and then we give them the wrong gardening thing. Which then they're like, uh thank you. Thank you. Yeah, no, I already have that.

SPEAKER_03 21:24

I already have a shovel, but yeah, I don't have any place to plant this fig tree. And do you know how they grow? And uh-oh.

SPEAKER_00 21:31

Yeah, or I'm allergic to figs. Right. So so it's like we almost get there, but we just misread the situation enough. Um, my uh curse, it's really not a curse, but because I'm uh a combination of um being comedy boy and eccentric, I get a lot of weird ass stuff. Because people go, Well, he likes funny things in weird him down, maybe he was. This uh yeah, I get a lot of my whole life of just things that are just off, yeah, or I get a lot of weird things, like things are for the house that are like chotskis. Yeah. So the so the first one is we're not paying enough attention. Yeah, we might have a little inkling of what they're like, but we haven't really, really focused on what what about that activity or hobby or interest.

SPEAKER_05 22:27

You're going you feel like you have to give me something. So you're gonna you're gonna go through the motions of thinking about something I like. But when you're told that's an expression of love, like absolutely go through the motions of doing that and showing this person that you love them. However, it's halfway.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

It's halfway. I feel like it's halfway.

SPEAKER_05 22:43

The motivation I feel is corrupt in that point because I'm like, if you're gonna get me something because you feel like you have to get me something to mark this occasion, oh, don't worry about it. Take me out to dinner, tell me about your life. If if I'm my gift, you have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

I'm gonna distinguish between the obligatory gift, which I see is oh, I know it's your birthday. I don't really want to get you something, but I know I have to because you always get me something. To me, that's classic obligatories, as opposed to this going halfway thing, which I almost feel is at least as unsatisfying because the person has made an effort to know you well enough to know that you're into gardening.

SPEAKER_05 23:22

But they but it's true, sort of like credit where credit's due, and that's but they missed it.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

They don't go the whole way, yeah. And so it feels somehow worse to me.

SPEAKER_07 23:33

Yes, and then I think that when you get those gifts, sometimes you want to do the thing of like, oh, thank you. Yeah, that's really thoughtful, but somewhere inside you're like, but you don't get me.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Right.

SPEAKER_07 23:46

So I don't actually feel seen. And I and then I think, like, are we not as close as I want to be? Exactly. Are we not as close as I thought we're am I the asshole in this situation? I honestly, here's what I thought when I got the diamond earrings. Yeah. I was like, yeah, this is this is winding down. This isn't gonna work.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

It's winding down.

SPEAKER_07 24:10

This is winding down. Oh man, Jeremy.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

You were out there, Jared, listening to this?

SPEAKER_07 24:15

Yeah, it was another year before it was done. But but you know, I remember getting them and being like, oh, this represents the disconnect. You're trying really hard. You're trying really hard. Oh, yeah. This was a real effort at this.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Wow.

SPEAKER_07 24:31

You put money and things.

SPEAKER_00 24:32

Diamonds and I know the end of the end. The beginning of the end.

SPEAKER_07 24:38

It was a try, but I do. I remember opening them and being like, oh. And then I was like, oh shit.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

I want to be I want to be a mall jewelry store that has that as the slogan. Diamonds! The beginning of the end. I feel that. You want to hear her say, oh shit.

SPEAKER_07 25:01

And that was right, and not taking anything like he was making an effort, but it was, it was like, oh, that just missed the mark. Right. I feel so unseen and not understood. And this represents all of the things in this relationship where you don't know me.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

Well, and that gives that's kind of flips into the second category of errors, which is they're giving you something that they think is cool or should be cool or is awesome.

SPEAKER_07 25:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

And it's not what you want. No. And it's the opposite.

SPEAKER_07 25:32

Let me also be real clear. I'm wearing the earrings today. Are you kidding me right now?

SPEAKER_00 25:38

What is this about here?

SPEAKER_02 25:40

That if the earrings did not keep the partner. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:44

So it was the beginning of the end, but not for the earrings.

SPEAKER_02 25:47

They're beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 25:49

We this will work. They are beautiful. We're gonna be successful. We will be successful selling this jewelry.

SPEAKER_02 25:56

To be clear, I kept the earrings. They're gorgeous.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Well, you should have.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Right, they were a gift.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

You deserve them.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

We all do. They were a gift.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

So um another thing that people do that um we don't always think about is we give somebody a cool thing that actually fits their values, but it creates work for them. Oh it's like giving someone a homework assignment.

SPEAKER_05 26:18

It's the fig tree. Can I help you make dinner and then and then it's uh what do I do? How do I oh if I need to okay, just go sit down, I'll make dinner. Right. Please don't help me if you're gonna make more work for me. That if I have to teach you how to get the oats into the jar with the with this per correct funnel.

SPEAKER_00 26:35

And why are we eating oats in a jar? Well, because that would be my question.

SPEAKER_05 26:38

I made a rhubarb crisp the other day. Yes.

SPEAKER_07 26:42

And also we can eat them in the morning as overnight oats.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

Boom.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

Overnight oats.

SPEAKER_07 26:48

I'll give you a gift of this. Okay, keep it. Did you grow up in horse country? New Jersey. Horse country, New Jersey. Horse country.

SPEAKER_00 26:57

Welcome to Horse Country, New Jersey. We wear diamond earrings and we have overnight oats. We ride horses on the beach. Get in line. Um, here's something that I did once. So I every year for many, many years, I've given a theme gift to my siblings on Christmas. No one else does this. And sometimes the themes are really right on. And sometimes there's a big whiff, you know, like and I know this going in. And part of it's kind of like, I'm just gonna take a flyer and try to do something, and we're all gonna get this gift, and you're gonna like it or hate it together.

SPEAKER_05 27:33

Oh, fun. That's an experience that you could share.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Except one year, this is an example of getting somebody a homework assignment. I gave them the gift of drones.

SPEAKER_06 27:43

Oh. Nobody could do it. Nobody could put them together.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

It's so much more. There have been many things that I've given over the years where you would be like, what was that? But you have to look at the pattern. It's the it's the pastige, it's the melange of gifts.

SPEAKER_05 28:02

I would love to indulge in that family gift where it's like, okay, do we have to put together this drone and then let's all go outside and drone together.

SPEAKER_07 28:11

What does the house look like from above?

SPEAKER_00 28:14

It's the gift of drones. Yeah, so that was an example of giving people a thing, and everybody was like, look at these instructions. It's a big giant tone. You know, they're opening this book, and there's like dust coming out. They never get it.

SPEAKER_05 28:28

Any gift that involves a set of Allen wrenches pass.

SPEAKER_00 28:32

Yeah, and Allen wrenches. That's when you know your toolkit's complete. We buy we've talked about this, but you buy something for someone to show off.

SPEAKER_07 28:42

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

And that's part of that's kind of can be the expensive thing. And there used to be this car commercial where they would bring an expensive car for Christmas and it'd have a bow on it.

SPEAKER_07 28:53

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Bring the person out. Yeah, please never buy me a car. Okay, I won't.

SPEAKER_05 28:59

If you do, it better have a giant bow on it. Well, that giving. It is not a gift of a car unless there's a giant bow. This is making me think that I really, really want to get, I want to have a line on giant bows. So that I like what a great um what a great joke to play on somebody. Like you go to your neighbor's house across the street in the middle of the night, put a giant bow on their car, and then I just drink coffee from my window and wait for them to come out in the morning.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Wait, on the car they have.

SPEAKER_07 29:31

This is this is a good time. This is an experience. Yes, that's an experience.

SPEAKER_00 29:38

Yes. Go in their garage and like put a giant bow on like their.

SPEAKER_07 29:42

We've given ourselves the gift of fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

We're doing it right now. So, how about this? This is something where people get into trouble. So, okay, so I know Hannah. I know what she is struggling with right now. And her shit says she's struggling with her carpet sweeper. Did they still make those? Sure. She's struggling with it, and she complains about it. She's like, God, I wish I could afford a new carpet sweeper. The gaskets. Here it's cut the gaskets on my carpet sweeper are totally shut. So I think, wow, I know exactly what to get, Hannah. I'm gonna get her a brand new carpet sweeper or a sweeter. Sure.

SPEAKER_07 30:20

Sweeter sweeper.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

A sweeter sweeper, and I'm gonna get that for her, and she's gonna be so happy. And so the birthday comes, Hannah opens the package, it has a big bow on it, and it's a carpet sweeper, and she's like, You don't care about me.

SPEAKER_05 30:33

You gave me a do you want me to sweep the carpet sweep?

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Yeah, you gave me a what? This is a house tool. So the point is we give somebody, we're totally tuned in, we give them exactly what they say they want, but it's a practical gift, a practical gift, and it's not their thing that feels like you don't love me, you're giving me tools that I need.

SPEAKER_07 30:56

You know what? Here's the thing. I would love a carpet sweeper.

SPEAKER_05 30:59

Get Tracy a carpet sweeper. Noted. Teal towels, carpet sweeper. I'm writing the list. Ross, you need to figure out your your registry item for smells like humans. I do, I do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

I think it's toddler art.

SPEAKER_05 31:13

Ooh, done. Done. I have an artist for you.

SPEAKER_07 31:18

But I I think, right, I I think that for some people that is a a total miss, but for other people, that is the thing they want.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Yeah. Like right. So that's the thing, is like, do they want more greater sucking vacuum?

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Is that gonna be like, wow, this is so awesome.

SPEAKER_05 31:39

I wanted this, you listen to me. This is a great occasion to receive this. Thanks. You've made my life easier. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

Or are they gonna say, where are the little diamond earrings? That's how you show you love me.

SPEAKER_05 31:50

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

And so you can miss because you can't your intention is perfect. You're totally tuned in. You're not giving it for you, you're totally thinking about them and what you've heard them say they want, but you miss something in the world.

SPEAKER_07 32:05

So I have an example that just came to mind. I just said I want the carpet sweeper, and then I realized I think I got that and wasn't pleased with it. But again, it spoke to the relationship. Yeah. In my marriage one Christmas over the course of course of the year, I was like, you know, I think I want to get I want new dishes. I think we should get new dishes. We should just go to IKEA, get rid of what we have, and just get some white dishes. And he was like, No, we're not getting new dishes. I don't want new dishes. And I was like, I really do. And then um for Christmas, I opened up the box and I got white dishes.

SPEAKER_04 32:43

Yeah, but that's more about that's more about the relationship than it is about the dishes or the gift. Yes, definitely.

SPEAKER_07 32:50

Right? Because it was like one weekend he could have been like, let's go buy new dishes, and that would have been fine. Or it could have been, okay, babe, go get them. Figure out whatever you want. Go for it, go get the new dishes.

SPEAKER_05 33:00

No. Do you think that it was it was preconceived that like no no no I don't think we're gonna do that? Uh oh, that wasn't it.

SPEAKER_07 33:10

Oh, I know what she wanted. Those white dishes. Bless them.

SPEAKER_04 33:14

Bless them.

SPEAKER_07 33:15

Right? Yeah but again, it was like, oh, yeah, this is coming to an end.

SPEAKER_05 33:19

Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's it's about it it's representative of dynamics that are much more deeply rooted.

SPEAKER_07 33:27

Right.

SPEAKER_05 33:28

And then the gift giving experience it becomes becomes a continuation of the conversation of like, where where are we? How are we? Are we cool? Am I con bid for connection?

SPEAKER_07 33:39

Bid for connection.

SPEAKER_05 33:40

Are we connected as I think we are? Are we connected? Like testing the water, testing the water. Oh, maybe not.

SPEAKER_07 33:45

Maybe not.

SPEAKER_05 33:45

Oh, maybe not.

SPEAKER_07 33:46

So again, it goes back to what you were saying. Those that first thing, I think, was the like, are you tuned in?

SPEAKER_00 33:51

Yeah, so I think I think there's uh some easy solutions that people can start implementing when they're in this stressful situation. And one is uh to really listen. Yeah, really to kind of listen to what the person says and watch what they do and really notice that. You don't have to make a list every time, but you can just sort of start paying attention more, and then you ask yourself when you're choosing the gift, is this gift something that I want them to like? Right. Is this gift, is this gift, am I giving this gift so that you of course you want something back. You want to feel like you you uh were successful in giving them something that brings them some degree of joy and satisfaction. So there's you always have something in the game, but is it more about reflecting upon you? Yeah, is it something that you think is cool as opposed to something they think is cool? Yeah. Like I'm really into this. Right. So I'm gonna give, you know.

SPEAKER_05 34:46

I want to share that with you.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

Ten weeks of karaoke when it's really me who likes karaoke. Right.

SPEAKER_07 34:53

They don't like karaoke.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 34:56

I'm also gonna say a kind of gift I don't like giving. This is the kind I don't like giving. The one where someone says, Yeah, for my Christmas or birthday, I want this exact thing out of this catalog. Here it is, here's the exact one I want to.

SPEAKER_05 35:08

Okay, has the time come to talk about wedding registry? Right on time.

SPEAKER_07 35:11

Good, okay. Perfect, because then I'm like, Well, uh here's 50 bucks then.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Like well, that's happening more and more. People are just saying, give me straight cash.

SPEAKER_07 35:24

And I I get that in some occasions, and I think weddings are a good time to just give money.

SPEAKER_00 35:31

Yeah, I mean that's part of the so that that some people say, yeah, it's an experience where I try to really get to know you and think about what you would like, and I exchange this gift to show my appreciation for you and and who you are as a person. And there's some risk in that, but I'm willing to take that risk because that's I want it, I want to I it's important to me. Yes. There's other people, of course, that say, no, no, no, don't get me the wrong thing, like my dad. Like, don't get me the wrong thing, and that's how they are.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Um, but let's go to these wedding registries because here's a situation where it it traditionally, at least in this country, people would say, Here's a list of things that you can buy for us.

SPEAKER_05 36:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_05 36:12

So I like it if, like, say, for example, your family, you have gift givers in your family. If you don't tell them what you'd like, you're going to get X, Y, and Z. And certainly if you want a modicum of just like control, or if you want to be on the receiving of end of informed gift giving, as opposed to if it's inevitable and you know you're going to receive and you and again, just like all about motivation. However, or in addition to that, uh, for me, I look at a wedding wedding registry and so I'm like, yep, get like get yours. This is absolutely the opportunity to tell your family, like, hey, I'm starting my life with this person. I would really love a Vitamix. It's time, it's time for me to invest in one, and it's so expensive, right? Like, absolutely put the Vitamix on that wedding registry. Totally makes sense. When it becomes more of a like day-to-day, this is like a shopping list that I have. And I would really like this pair of cute headphones. Yeah. And I would like this and this and that. I'm like, if your wedding registry is like your Amazon search history, not here for it, friend. It's fraught. It's just fraught. It is fraught.

SPEAKER_07 37:23

And it also makes me think at first I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then I started thinking, I was like, well, wait a minute. I think sometimes people do a registry and they try and give a a range of prices of things. So like you they want someone scrolling through the registry to be like, yeah, I can afford those $15 headphones, but I can't afford the $150 place setting. And I want my guests to be able to not feel obligated. So then I am going to put those headphones on there. And that's that's too tactful and kind. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Right now, in the current moment, people who are getting married are opting more and more for cash registry. Yeah. Pick your cash bundle that you want to, you know, sign up for because we just want the cash. Some people even go through the motions of having, like at at the wherever they're doing this, where they have boxes saying household and uh fake uh honeymoon, and you can as if you know it's all in cash, they're all just gonna stuff it in their pockets on the way out. Yeah. And who knows where it came from. But the point is, people are wanting, wanting, uh, people are wanting more and more to get cash. And there's a lot of cultures who have traditionally given cash at weddings, like the Italians, the French, the Spanish, the Japanese, people in India. Cash at weddings is actually a thing that's expected and welcome. Yes. So more and more people here in America are wanting that. And are you okay with that?

SPEAKER_05 38:50

I think it's great.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Just here's your $10.

SPEAKER_05 38:54

I think it's great. And I have the caveat question of somebody like like me who's like, yeah, I've got a certain level of privilege that's making me like comfortable and secure in my life, but I don't have like dry giving you 200 bucks after I've already bought my ticket to fly back to the Midwest for your wedding, and that like I get to this point where I'm like, hmm, can what can our relationship speak for itself, or do I need to contribute in this more traditional gift-giving way? Hmm. That's where I'm like, well, can't can my presence be the present? And is it is it okay to assume that? Do we need to have an explicit conversation about that? Or should I just just girl, just just j quit balking at tradition and buy your friend a pair of headphones and go and have fun at his wedding? Like, don't think about this so much.

SPEAKER_07 39:39

I think you could do either one, and again, it comes back to the relationship with the person. So if you know your friend and you're going to the wedding and you know that your friend is saying we have people coming and we would love cash gifts to help support this life we're about to step into.

SPEAKER_05 39:55

Love that.

SPEAKER_07 39:55

And yeah, um, also if anyone has another kind of gift they'd love to give, please feel free. Right. And so that each person, again, it's that access place. Yeah. Right. It's like I've bought a dress, I've bought a ticket, I'm coming to the Midwest, and I've brought you some kombucha. Love that. Right? Like I'm sure that your friend that had you come would be like, thank you for the kombucha, and we love you, and we're glad you're here. Right. But great Aunt Susan is gonna drop 500 bucks. And she needs a registry, absolutely, and she needs it, and she needs to be told what to do so that it feels good. And she knows that she wrote that check or did that thing, and that feels good to her.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

So um, here's what I want to do with cash weddings.

SPEAKER_07 40:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

This is just give me this what this is how I would prefer to um participate in a wedding where I'm expected to give cash. Okay, so each guest, it doesn't matter how much money, it could be anything, gets to like so the wedding couple are at the front of whatever the space is with the officiant, whoever's doing the the actual official wedding, and you get to walk up one at a time, and you have actual money, so actual bills or change or whatever, and they hold out their hands and you slap it into their hands in a very like uh just a very demonstrative way, a big slap of money, and then the officiant calls out using a microphone or a bullhorn or whatever. How much? $14 from Joe and Mary Grimaldi, and everybody cheers, and the money goes into like one of those see-through barrels, so everybody sees the cash going up.

SPEAKER_05 41:32

I like this. Is there like an air, there's air in it, and it's blowing the dollar on the stuff.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

It's like a blowing, and then they go in there and maybe they dance around in the money, and then after you give your $14, you high-five your way all the way back down. That is an experience. If we're gonna do cash, and then no matter what people give, it's so funny. Celebrated in its fun. Two dollars from Uncle Gah! $16.75.

SPEAKER_05 41:59

See, that sounds fun. Doesn't it sound fun? Question for you are we are we the jerks here? Like because right, we're being we're being relatively critical of something that is just like generous by nature, and certainly like motivation matters and like the intention behind a gift matters. But are we like three gift receivers right now who are talking about gifts being like, I don't know. I don't actually like it. Are we nitpicking gifts? Should we just be more grateful that anybody wants to give us a gift?

SPEAKER_07 42:27

Well, so what here here's No, no, absolutely not. Here's what I'm thinking. I think that what we're doing is talking about the emotional experience we have on the inside when we get different kinds of gifts and how we communicate with the person that's giving it to us or that that we're giving it to. And it speaks more to the relationship with that person than it does about the gift.

SPEAKER_05 42:50

Yeah. I'm imagining some listeners who are gift givers just just being like, well, I can't win. I can't win.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

No, you can win. I think that's the point, is that it is it can be stressful for some people to give a good gift, but you can win, and you tend to win more. You're not gonna win every time. You're gonna there's gonna be every once in a while where you buy someone a drone and they're like, Why? Right. But but but if you're really tuned in, if you're really listening and you're really noticing the other person and you're really focused on them, you're going to have more wins on the gifts, you're gonna have more positive experiences. Because as Tracy said, it's about the relationship and it's an expression of your connection. And so that's why it's important, but it's that's why it's also stressful for people because they want to get it right.

SPEAKER_05 43:35

The stakes can be high. The stakes are high. Yeah, and can we lower the stakes at all with the gift-giving relationship? Anyone anywhere, anybody listening, could we, yeah, could we potentially remember that it's that it's about the connection between two people, it's about relationship, and gift giving then is more symbolic of what we love already, what exists already?

SPEAKER_07 43:54

Yes. So the same partner who gave me the earrings, um, I Gave him a pair of boots. And I went to the store and I was like, those look just like him. Those will be great. He will really like those. He already owned those.

SPEAKER_06 44:09

Right. That happened.

SPEAKER_07 44:10

It was the exact same pair he owned. He kind of like these. Those look just like him. He's super into those. I think he really wanted a pair of these. So um he opened them and the look on his face, and I was like, oh shit. I missed.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

And but you you got it right, but you got it wrong. Exactly. That's a tough one.

SPEAKER_07 44:32

Here's the thing. I thought it was funny. Which probably did not help how it landed. I think he thought it was funny. Because I he was like, I already have these.

SPEAKER_05 44:44

I got you the diamonds. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 44:49

You got me the boots I already have.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

Yeah, there's two sides to a gift exchange. And one is we talked about being tuned in other people, but the other one is when you are receiving a gift from someone, give them some grace. Oh yes. Because great point. You know, just allow that it's a hard process. Yes. You have misses, but the person was trying.

SPEAKER_05 45:14

Lower the stakes.

SPEAKER_07 45:16

We make it represent something like he made that mean that I didn't care. He made that mean things that it did not mean for me. And then I could it he he it was really hard to recover.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

Right. Also because of the laughing.

SPEAKER_07 45:32

Well yes. I mean, what for me it was a light miss. It was like, oh my gosh, I totally missed it.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Isn't that funny? I put a bow around a car you have already.

SPEAKER_07 45:45

Right? So it wasn't laughing at you.

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Yeah, these dime star sparkly.

SPEAKER_07 45:50

You you nailed it and I blew it on the boots, but it was it was like, why does it have to be that loaded?

SPEAKER_00 45:56

No, it really doesn't. And but that's that that r requires both people in the exchange to give each other enough grace to realize yeah, that but we're trying.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

I had a partner once who was famous for doing something inter I always thought it was interesting. They would say, Hey, I was out, I saw this thing, and I knew you would like it. And I like that. And, but there's an and, and I almost got it for you.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

Oh no! No, no, no!

SPEAKER_00 46:25

And what they wanted was the credit for for noticing that something I like, but they're not a gift. Yeah, no, I'm not getting it for you.

SPEAKER_02 46:32

It's not a gift. Isn't that interesting?

SPEAKER_00 46:34

It is. I always thought so. I always felt like, how am I supposed to feel about that? Yeah. Good that you know me well enough to know I would like something, but not good because you don't think I'm worth it. What is that?

SPEAKER_07 46:44

Right to get it. What is that? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:46

Okay, let's talk quickly about uh you give someone a gift. Yeah. You put in the time, you put in the effort, you really think you nailed it, but you have you've taken the risk. So that you don't know if they exactly would like it or not. Maybe you do. They get the gift and they don't say anything.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

No response. Yeah. What do you do? Do you say anything about it? You just let it ride. You bring it up. Bring it up. And how do you do it?

SPEAKER_05 47:10

So here it is. Um this this comes from Nick Layton and Leah Bonima of the Were You Raised by Wolves podcast. Oh. Polite and direct conversation. Yes. That's the shortcut. That's the like like anything about manners, about etiquette. How does it go though? Ross, uh hi.

SPEAKER_03 47:26

Good to good to talk to you. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

Always great to see you.

SPEAKER_03 47:29

Friend, do you have a second? Sure. Um, did you did you get the did you get the package that I sent?

SPEAKER_05 47:34

I want to make sure I got a I got a notification in my email that said it was delivered. Everything good?

SPEAKER_00 47:38

You just go right at it.

SPEAKER_05 47:40

Is there any other way? No.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Is there any other way all into that?

SPEAKER_07 47:43

Yeah. You should still be able to do that. You should acknowledge your gifts always.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Ideally, always always.

SPEAKER_07 47:47

Yes. Even if you don't love it or it was a total miss, you say, I got those spoons. That was so thoughtful of you to send them. Thank you for thinking of me.

SPEAKER_05 47:56

Yeah, I think that we can agree that not acknowledging something that was given as a gift is is a faux pas.

SPEAKER_07 48:04

You don't have to lie, you don't have to lie and say you love it. Right. But you can always say, That was so thoughtful of you to send that to me. Yeah. Thanks for thinking of me. Every time I use them, I will think of you. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

Right. Which will be never.

SPEAKER_06 48:18

Right. But still think of you.

SPEAKER_05 48:21

That's not I will not only exclusively think of you when I never use these spoons. I'll think of you other times. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

The the articles I read about this specific issue said exactly what you say, which is I I they either say, say something like, I got the notification that they were received, or they say you can say, you know, I got a notification, but sometimes this website I use is sketchy, or there's or I just wanted to double check.

SPEAKER_05 48:47

Yeah, yeah. Hadn't heard from you, and I just wanted to make sure that it wasn't, it wasn't nicked off your doorstep. How you do it?

SPEAKER_00 48:52

But it's but it's yet it's oh there's that's a little risky too, because then people could feel like, oh, I'm oh shoot, I should have said something, I've done something wrong.

SPEAKER_07 49:01

Well they but they should have. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

That's true. You're basically holding them accountable for being a regular person.

SPEAKER_07 49:07

Here's I'm gonna, I think I've said this on this podcast before, but one of my favorite sound bites from Melanie Beattie of Codependent No More is you cannot simultaneously hold healthy boundaries for yourself and take care of someone else's feelings.

SPEAKER_04 49:20

No matter how much I want that.

SPEAKER_07 49:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 49:24

Yeah. And I add just don't be a jerk about it. Yeah. Don't be a jerk about it.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Give grace.

SPEAKER_02 49:29

Give grace.

SPEAKER_07 49:30

Give grace.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

And you know, we've talked all about this and we don't have time. We've did an episode all about love languages, but there are some people, if you're in a relationship with somebody and one of their primary love languages is giving and receiving gifts, then yeah, you need to know that about that. Yes. Um, don't make that the mystery that you haven't, you know, discovered yet.

SPEAKER_05 49:48

And don't make it a game of bingo, like, oh, did I, did I how about this gift? How about that gift? Like, know yourself well enough. Explain to somebody what you would love to receive.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

Yes, explain it.

SPEAKER_05 49:57

Right? Yes. You know, like like let that be a part of getting to know a new sweetie or something like that. That like, here's how I am with it.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

But also don't get so wigged out about it that you're afraid to give the occasional drone.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

Right. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 50:12

One time I gave my dad, so he lived a long time, so you know, he's tough to get gifts for. I pointed that out. So I was always like trying to stay ahead of, you know, where his brain was in terms of what kind of gift I would give him. One year I gave him a surfboard when he was about 85.

SPEAKER_07 50:26

Yeah, why not?

SPEAKER_00 50:27

And here was the coolest thing, and this is a a sort of a mini story about how our relationship got better over time. So he gets the surfboard, it's a full-size surfboard, it's bright orange, it just shows up at his apartment. This is when he was still living independently, and he gets a surfboard and he calls me up and he says, Hey, I got the surfboard, and it's really cool, which is a big stretch for the guy for the guy who got something he wanted and hated it. This is something he I know he didn't want. But I said, So do you know why I got it for you? And um he says, Why? And I said, Because when people come to see you and they see this bright orange surfboard standing against your wall, they're gonna say, Do you surf? And your answer should be, well, I don't, but I could. Oh and it was like a meta gift about like he still had life left and the possibility and optimism of life. But he totally got it. Yes, it was our most successful transaction. So even with somebody who's have this history of misses or bad experiences, you can get to a place over time. Yes. Just give them a surfboard. And it's that's the lesson.

SPEAKER_05 51:46

And if you're in a loving relationship with somebody, it's like it's always a good time for a bid for connection. Yes. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:52

A bid for connection. Let's leave it at that. I'm gonna thank you both for doing this episode. It was really fun.

SPEAKER_05 51:58

Oh, it was totally fun. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

We've improved the gift-giving culture all around the world.

SPEAKER_05 52:02

I'll be anxiously awaiting my teal towels. Teal towels are coming up for you.

SPEAKER_07 52:06

And uh sweeper for me, please.

SPEAKER_05 52:08

Yes, a sweeter sweeper.

SPEAKER_00 52:09

A sweeter sweeper. Thank all of you for joining us for this episode. If you like what we're doing, you can help us by sharing the show. That really helps us grow our community. You can follow us on Instagram, you can rate us on apps that allow you to rate us. Give us a high rating and a beautiful, glowing sweeter sweeper review, and that'll also help people find the show. Support us on Patreon if that's something you feel comfortable doing. And we hope you will tune in to another episode because whether you are rolling fat with toddler art or just someone with an inner raging nine year old, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans. Goodbye, everybody.