Smells Like Humans
Top 5% global podcast! Smells Like Humans is a seasonal podcast dedicated to bringing a humorous perspective to quirky and curious aspects of human behavior. Each show, the SLH crew will focus on a different topic, and share personal stories and observations in a way that sounds like you’re hanging out with your funny friends. The stories and commentary are presented with humor and warmth, since let’s face it: we all smell like humans. (Contact us: contactSLH19581980@gmail.com)
Smells Like Humans
B#TCH SLAP YOUR WAY TO HAPPINESS (or try gardening)
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Happy guest Madeline joins Ross to discuss factors that make us "happy". Tangents include: Pantry happiness; Costco hotdogs; Satan's camera film; depressed 8 year olds; lilacs; autonomy vs. money; Flagstaff, AZ; 9 year old furniture movers; Jeff Bezos.
Notes:
Contact us: contactSLH19581980@gmail.com
What kind of film you got in that camera? Satan's film. Where do you get that? Costco. Next to Satan's hot dogs. Welcome to another episode of Smells Like Humans. This is the podcast where we explore the curious things that people do, the very human things that grab our attention and cause us to wonder what and why. I'm Ross, your host, and today my guest is a splendid example of a human who should have been a serial because she has that snap crackle and pop. It's Madeline.
SPEAKER_02Oh, thank you. What an intro.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, welcome and welcome everyone. Friends, I ask you to help us grow this community, and we really, really could use your help. And the best way to help us is to share the show. Post an episode that you really like on your social mead somewhere. Let people know about us. Uh, we are totally independent and we're not famous. So we need you. If you're enjoying this show every week and we know you are, please let others know about it. Okay, let's get started. Madeline, we know that people think about, strive for, wish for something called happiness. Nothing new about that. We also know that a lot of people do not feel happy in their lives, at least on a regular basis. And now I think part of the problem is that the way I think about happiness is it's on a continuum. So it really doesn't describe a fixed state of joy. We'll come back to that.
SPEAKER_02I think that's a very healthy way of looking at it, but yeah, we'll we'll loop back around.
SPEAKER_00We'll loop back around, but would you describe yourself as happy in this current moment?
SPEAKER_02I would. I'm sitting here with my good friend Ross. Uh yeah, looking around, looking over your shoulder to see who that might be.
SPEAKER_00I heard good friend and it threw me. Keep going.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I'm about to have a nice conversation. It's uh it's a good morning. I just washed my hair.
SPEAKER_00Nice. Yeah. Um and uh and it is freshly washed. I can tell that, and I can report that accurately. We're sitting here at Portland Underground Studio doing this recording. This is the place to come if you need to record anything. That's true. And uh we're demonstrating that right now. Yes. Um, what are the things that tend to uh contribute to you feeling happy? Like what has to be in place typically for you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um, I think I'm actually a pretty base level happy person.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Um and is there do you know why that is, or is it just chemistry or the way you were raised?
SPEAKER_02Or well, it can't be entirely chemistry because I also was diagnosed with major depressive disorder when I was eight. So if it was apparent at that point, there's some chemistry happening in there that shouldn't be making me happy.
SPEAKER_00When you were diagnosed as having depression at eight years old, uh-uh, did they tell you that? Did they say you're being diagnosed with depression or depression and obsessive compulsive disorder, yes. Yeah, they they told you that.
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00And so w as a kid, how did you process that information?
SPEAKER_02Uh it I had to do some learning on what it meant. Uh my my mom also has depression. And so she was able to do some kind of talking me through, you know, your your chemicals aren't balanced in in your brain. They're not giving you a level, level playing field. Um so I was luckier than than some, I think, in that I had this this understanding of it from my mother. But it was definitely uh, you know, something to wrap my head around, particularly once the idea of medication came into play, right? And you know, yeah, something that needs fixing. What does that mean?
SPEAKER_00So you can s you can say uh fairly confidently that you're not one of these people who just I was born happy.
SPEAKER_02You know, I think that it's so funny. I think that I am and I'm not, right? Like I I am, I do have a generally pretty positive outlook on life. I am a pretty happy person, and also my chemicals tell me that I shouldn't be. So I don't know what it is. That's I think I just I think it's just that I like people a lot. And so I have a lot of good people in my life and a lot of good connections, and I find a lot of joy in that.
SPEAKER_00Um I have always known you to be a very upbeat, happy person. I've seen you in moments when you're you know not happy, happy, right? But but generally you're very engaged and um seem pretty excited to be in the world most days.
SPEAKER_02Thanks. I think I feel that way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's how it comes off. Um so uh going back to the question of what has to come into play for you, what are the main factors, if you can think of any?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um, I am an introvert who's really good at pretending to be an extrovert. I do need certain amounts of connection with people to feel happiness, but I also need a certain amount of like reboot recharge time on my own. Uh and I'm not always the best at balancing those two things. So that can can upset my happy if I'm not getting that proper balance of things in there. But um yeah, people I love. And then I think also remembering to take pleasure in the small things to savor things and enjoy them and be present in the moment. I think that makes me happy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, the old adage of stopping to smell the flowers.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I was reading an article recently about um how people, I think they're calling it romanticizing your life, and they're encouraging you to romanticize your life, which is a kind of a new creative way of saying stop and smell the flowers. Yeah. But the way people are doing it today is they'll um have an experience where maybe they will literally pass by some beautiful flowers, they'll take a picture of the flowers, okay, they'll create, you know, they'll they'll they'll filter the picture and they're just the right way, and then they'll post it and say, I'm stopping to smell the flowers. Right. I'm making this up. But this is basically the vibe of the vibe of the deal. And so I was I was reading about that and how that was supposed to be like a cool way to like take a moment and you know, appreciate the little stuff.
SPEAKER_02Why did you stop to actually smell it before or after you take the picture? I feel like that's the important part.
SPEAKER_00My question is is it possible to separate are you really in the moment if you're thinking about the moment as a postable moment?
SPEAKER_02That's such a good question.
SPEAKER_00Are you really in the moment, or are you just like every other picture you post, which is I hope people like this?
SPEAKER_02I think there's a line because there is that aspect of it for sure, but I am also someone who likes to take a lot of like if I go see a pretty vista or something, I want to take a lot of pictures of it. And it's not that I'm not in the moment enjoying it, it's that there's something about trying to capture it, whether I'm gonna post it or not, something about trying to capture it that does bring me a certain amount of joy in that experience. So there's something about intent in there, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's the intent. So the pro yeah, the thing that it wasn't a problem, but the thing that made me stop and think was the red flag. If you're if the if the if the mood of the moment is to if what we're encouraging people to do is to appreciate the small things in their life and actually really celebrate them, but by celebrating them publicly with your social media friends, yeah, are you really doing that or are you not really in it? I don't know. I don't know. Um and but but then there's this gradation that you're pointing out, which is you could just go and you could look at a beautiful uh mountain scene and not take any pictures. True. Or you could go and take pictures but just for yourself, or maybe you share them with others later, or it can totally be a production that you're putting on social media and hoping to get likes. Um, and none of those are inherently wrong.
SPEAKER_02No, and I think that you could uh depending on what your experience was taking those pictures, if I get back from a vacation and I had a great time and I took a lot of those Vista pictures and enjoyed it in the moment, I might post them on social media later to share.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02But that wasn't the only thing I was thinking about when I took the pictures, right?
SPEAKER_00I think the key is that you actually do appreciate the moment. Yeah, yeah. What you do with it after is up to you.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00And not necessarily a bad thing, but if you're only doing it to create these scenes for other people, you're not actually present. And you're mate, you may not be actually reaping the potential joy out of that moment because it's like sh being a director in a movie.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. I don't know when this will air, but if there are still any lilacs blooming, listener, where you are, that is my greatest joy moment is smelling the lilacs.
SPEAKER_00Smell the lilacs, people. Um, I always forget which flowers are which, but I know I like lilacs.
SPEAKER_02Am I number one?
SPEAKER_00Um when video cameras became a thing, and this would be like late 80s, early 90s, I would spend a lot of time videoing. And um it's funny to look back at those videos and how not present I was in any of those moments. And so, but I certainly was that. I was that person who was trying to record everything for a while. Yeah. And then later it was, you know, taking lots of photos with my phone. That was I would certainly did that, and I posted them online, uh, a lot of them. Yeah. Um, so I've been down all those roads, but now what I like to do is to not take pictures and except with my brain.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And try to be God's camera.
SPEAKER_02Am I right?
SPEAKER_00I'm using God's camera and the devil's film. That sounds like you, yes. Yeah, yeah. So so um, so yeah, I'm experimenting with just being in those moments and not recording them.
SPEAKER_01That's lovely.
SPEAKER_00I've decided that I there's too many pictures to look at. And if you don't have all the pictures in the first place, then you don't have to look through them. And Google keeps, I don't know how to turn off the Google um remember this thing from five years ago when you had a girlfriend. Remember that? Remember that when you were a little more stable. I'm like, no, I don't want to think about that. I don't want to think about that. I mean, I don't I'm not trying to hide from it, but don't put it in my face, Google. I know there's a way to turn that off, and it's probably called throwing your phone out the window.
SPEAKER_02Right. Um a solution to many problems.
SPEAKER_00So there is throw all your stuff out the window.
SPEAKER_02And then go smell the lilacs.
SPEAKER_00That's a way to be happy. You know, it truly is. It truly is. I think getting rid of the stuff is the first solution. But I was reading this article about the latest research on happiness factors. Ooh. And I wanted to run some of these by you. Please do. There's not, it's not that any of them are that shocking because they aren't. But at the same time, it's interesting sometimes when you look at lots of data points and it confirms what you think you know.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00That to me, that's also as interesting, sometimes more interesting than finding out something totally unexpected.
SPEAKER_02I agree. It makes me happy to learn that my instincts are right.
SPEAKER_00Wow, that's a happiness factor for you. So one thing, of course, that people think about when you ask them what like when I ask you that question, what has to be going on for you? A lot of people say, well, I have to be making a certain amount of money. And that turns out to be true.
SPEAKER_02I mean, yeah, I do need to be able to live. That is important.
SPEAKER_00It's important to live, to be, you know, if you're not living, it's hard to be happy about it. Um, but the research shows that much over $75,000 a year, you're not getting a one-for-one return on happiness.
SPEAKER_02Someone making much under $75,000 a year.
SPEAKER_00And you're happy anyway.
SPEAKER_02I'm happy anyway because I I am making enough to live off of. That's I think a key.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. So there are obviously different levels of this. But you know, some people will continue to chase higher and higher earnings, and sometimes they have to.
SPEAKER_02Uh money can't buy you love.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but apparently, yeah, it does buy you love and happiness to a certain extent. Up to 75K.
SPEAKER_02And then that's the ceiling.
SPEAKER_00And then the returns that start to diminish.
SPEAKER_02It's just not there anymore.
SPEAKER_00You know, if you were to double that and go to 150 or get hired at 250 or whatever the number is, you're not twice or three times as happy.
SPEAKER_02Well, I mean, do you look at Jeff Bezos and think that's a happy man? I don't think you do.
SPEAKER_00I never look at him.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I also avoid looking at him whenever I'm talking about. I don't want to look at him. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00No, but I know exactly what you're saying. And uh, you know, it it does get to a point pretty quickly for most people that once you can cover your basics, your basic needs and a little extra, maybe do a little nice thing here and there.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Treat yourself money.
SPEAKER_00Say that again.
SPEAKER_02Treat yourself money.
SPEAKER_00Treat yourself money. I like that. So yeah, once you get to that point, I mean, for me, I uh have worked worked a long time, made different money at different times. Um, but I the richest I ever felt was when I could afford to fill my little pantry with all my favorite snacks. I can remember this moment where I'd opened the pantry and like, there it is. I can eat all the cupcakes I want.
SPEAKER_02That's so nice.
SPEAKER_00It's just a nice feeling like I have really made something of myself.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I've got a pantry full of snacks.
SPEAKER_02Heck yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I've whether I made more money, which I did at some point after that, it never felt better than that.
SPEAKER_02Never as much of that happiness as of the snack pantry. Of the snack pantry.
SPEAKER_00The snack pantry for me was the paragon of wealth.
SPEAKER_02There it is, the peak.
SPEAKER_00So um, so I think that happens to a lot of people, and a lot of people fantasize about being rich, but it seems to be true that you don't even have to be rich. You just make $75,000 and you're pretty much got you're gonna have your max money happiness.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I would call that rich from my perspective.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but but yeah, so you know, but I mean that's the thing.
SPEAKER_02It doesn't need to be you don't need to be a billionaire.
SPEAKER_00You don't need to be yeah, you don't need to be Jeff Bezos and you don't need to look at him.
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_00So um so not looking at him makes me happy, actually. So that's another factor we should add in here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Not looking at Jeff Bezos is a source of happiness. So the the thing that's interesting about the 75k threshold or whatever you want to call it, is that it's pretty obtainable for a lot of people. I mean, it's not so far. You could kind of imagine somehow uh working up to that kind of income per year, and uh or maybe it would be like a joint income with two people.
SPEAKER_02For joint income, definitely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so it's obtainable, that part. And so there must be more to it.
SPEAKER_01Right. There must be more to happiness.
SPEAKER_00Um and the next factor is ready.
SPEAKER_02I'm ready.
SPEAKER_00What would you guess it is?
SPEAKER_02Uh let's see, we've done after money. Money. I'm gonna say well, if we have money, I'm gonna say time.
SPEAKER_00Well, that would be that's a thoughtful answer. It turns out it's regular sex.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00So people are happier in their life when they're having sex.
SPEAKER_02I think that's a broad a broad stroke. A shout out to the asexual community for whom this answer is not helpful at all.
SPEAKER_00Right. Well, for them, they're happier when they're not having sex. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Well, for some of it's it's a whole spectrum, but yes.
SPEAKER_00It's a spectrum. Just like happiness is a spectrum.
SPEAKER_02Well, assuming that we're talking to a a random person on the street, they're all asexual, they have a sex drive, that they want to activate, they are happy when they are able to activate it regularly.
SPEAKER_00All those things are true, but they are random.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00And we're talking to them.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00So sex is something that when you look at these large-scale studies which have looked at like millions of data points, sex pops out. Money pops out, but only up to 75,000. And then having regular sex. Next one.
SPEAKER_02Uh family, connection, humans.
SPEAKER_00Um, yes, but um, but we're not there yet.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay, okay. Exercise. Really?
SPEAKER_00If you regularly exercise, and I'm not talking dolphins are good. Yeah, and I'm not talking about gym rats, but anything. Anything like w mall walking to tough muttered and everything in between. Yeah. If you play pickleball or tennis, okay, or you just walk around your neighborhood making comments, yeah. Uh muttering to yourself, smelling the lilacs, that relates to higher levels of happiness.
SPEAKER_02I can see that.
SPEAKER_00Money, sex, exercise. This is the only one in the list that would surprise me because it's very specific.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Gardening.
SPEAKER_02Interesting. Okay, you know what though? All of these I think are very visceral and like old, ancient human programming when you break them down, right? Because the money thing is about having the security to be able to relax and enjoy yourself. Right. The sex is the companionship, the the internal drive thing, and then the you know, movement, etc. And then gardening, there's something about connecting to the natural world that I think is very intrinsic to being human and human happiness.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um, I was reading a an unrelated article about a person who's got a consulting business, and he goes to people who are gardeners and he consults with them on the proper way to move their bodies while they garden so that they don't hurt themselves.
SPEAKER_02Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Because people often hurt themselves.
SPEAKER_02Last time I weeded, I got a big old blister on my palm. Yes, you need I need to talk to this man.
SPEAKER_00You need to that, or you need to get some weed control going in your house. Um so those are the big three sex, exercise, and gardening, and they're independent constructs. So I know you could say, well, they're all the same thing in a way, but they're they're they they broke them out statistically, different, scratch different itches. And so that's I just thought gardening was interesting. And that's very specific. I don't garden. I um but I've know of known plenty of people who do, and they do get a lot of joy out of having the plants, you know, selecting them, tending them, trimming them, watering.
SPEAKER_02It's very No, I don't I don't garden, but I do keep houseplants, and they do bring me joy.
SPEAKER_00Okay, we'll count that as gardening.
SPEAKER_02Okay, gardening light.
SPEAKER_00Um, then we get to the one you came up with is having a romantic partner.
SPEAKER_02Okay. I was just thinking connection in general.
SPEAKER_00But well, that's gonna come up too. Okay. I just haven't gotten to it.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm skipping ahead.
SPEAKER_00No, you can skip ahead.
SPEAKER_02My hierarchy of needs is, I guess, scaled differently than this this hierarchy.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think these you can probably list these, everybody would probably order them differently, but these are just factors that are pretty common among happy people. So having a romantic partner if that's a thing you desire. If you desire that and you're a random person on the street. Uh friends. Yes. Which is what you were talking about. Yes. Having friends, real friends. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Romantic partner right there.
SPEAKER_00A garden, doing some exercise. Yeah. Because you can exercise in the garden. You can.
SPEAKER_02That sounds like a good life, honestly.
SPEAKER_00You can haul around bags of mulch.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um here are things that don't make people happy.
SPEAKER_02Ooh, okay.
SPEAKER_00Working hard.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I mean I'm not surprised.
SPEAKER_00Work is the second most miserable activity, according to people who were studied.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think even as someone who likes my job, yeah. It's, you know, you don't want to be doing that all the time.
SPEAKER_00I just think in this current moment where, you know, we've suffered through two years or more of the pandemic, and everybody's been questioning their entire existence. Yes. To the extent that they are privileged enough to do so, they've been questioning it. And most people that I know have concluded that what that they they've concluded that their thoughts about work are now different. They value it differently, and that is to say, they s feel like spending so much time and so much effort and so much stress working for even in a place that you like is not the way to win at this game of life. And I agree.
SPEAKER_01Me too.
SPEAKER_00I think that the less you can work, especially for somebody else, the better. And if you're stuck working with somebody else or for a large company or something dehumanizing like that, the less of yourself you can invest in it without getting into trouble for not doing your job, the happier you're gonna be.
SPEAKER_02I'm much happier when I am able to set my Limits and honor them. So things like when I clock off for the day, I'm done, right? I'm not gonna dwell on work. And I have the the privilege with my current job of being able to do that, right? Not having the expectation that I'm just on call 24-7.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00We talked about um a little bit about jobs in another uh earlier episode that we did. But um yeah, for me it was I realized fairly early on that I was not gonna be able to work for a large company because of the bureaucracy and the routine and all of the rules. And I'm not good with that. And but then even though I worked for more entrepreneurial companies most of my life, I would do everything I could to carve out my own little space where no one would bug me.
SPEAKER_02There you go.
SPEAKER_00Figure out a way to have as much autonomy. And I used to say, and I still believe this, but I definitely felt this when I was younger, which is autonomy is more important to me than money. If you leave me alone, you can pay me less.
SPEAKER_02Okay, there you go. Yeah, if you're not peering over my shoulder every 30 seconds.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just let me do my thing and let me do it my way. I can be I can be much happier.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I can see that for sure.
SPEAKER_00You know what the most miserable thing is? What? So work is the second most miserable thing. It was second only to being sick in bed.
SPEAKER_02Oh no. On the other hand, I mean that is miserable.
SPEAKER_00That's about it. That's like the worst.
SPEAKER_02I have had jobs before where I have been relieved to get sick because then I didn't have to go into work. So that was a rough situation to be in.
SPEAKER_00As a kid, I always tried to make sure that I was sick when the World Series was on.
SPEAKER_02There you go. Of course you did.
SPEAKER_00Um, there was a time, uh, kids, when the when they would play World Series games during the day.
SPEAKER_02What?
SPEAKER_00And so the only way you could watch them is if you were at home.
SPEAKER_02You didn't have a recording device, Ross?
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, it didn't exist yet.
SPEAKER_00No, we didn't record anything. Thank goodness. Oh my God. I am so lucky. Oh, I can only imagine being haunted today. People looking up videos of me as a like a teenager. Uh-huh. It'd be embarrassing.
SPEAKER_02Nightmare.
SPEAKER_00Fortunately, it's just in here, it's just in my brain.
SPEAKER_02Justin God's camera on the doubles film.
SPEAKER_00Justin God's camera. What kind of film you got in that camera? Satan's film. Where do you get that? Costco. Next to Satan's hot dogs. Um people like the hot dogs at Costco.
SPEAKER_02They really Costco hot dogs do bring me happiness.
SPEAKER_00I'm just trying to figure out I've never been to a Costco.
SPEAKER_02Like they're not, you know, A plus incredible, but they're good and they're cheap and they're hot and fast. They're just there. They're there for you.
SPEAKER_00I've I've heard a lot about Costco hot dogs. I I've never been to a Costco. You have to be in a club.
SPEAKER_02You do. I don't have a membership, but my parents do, so sometimes I'll go with them.
SPEAKER_00Oh, you're a gravy trainer.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, darn tutin, I am.
SPEAKER_00Nothing wrong with it. Nope. All right. Another thing, besides being sick that makes us unhappy, is being with people we don't like.
SPEAKER_02God, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Gosh, scrub those people, please.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, for real.
SPEAKER_00Scrub those people.
SPEAKER_02This, if you are listening and there is someone in your life who is toxic, this is your permission to just cut them right out.
SPEAKER_00Oh my gosh. Just do it. It is the most feel so much better. It is the most one of the most empowering things you can do as a human being is to scrub out the people who piss you off. Now, often there's an overlap between work that we have to do and people that we don't like. A lot of those people end up at the workplace. Sometimes there are bosses. Yep. But um, man, to the extent that you can limit your exposure to people you don't like. Yeah. Being with people you don't like that makes you unhappy. Living in New York City.
SPEAKER_02That doesn't surprise me at all. Sorry to my friends who live in New York, but the time I've spent there was I just don't like it.
SPEAKER_00It's rough. I've worked there.
SPEAKER_02It smells like garbage all the time.
SPEAKER_00And other things, other fluids. Uh I lived in New Jersey once and worked in New York City, so I had the commute, and I'm telling you.
SPEAKER_02Arguably the worst version. You start, you start off worst of both worlds.
SPEAKER_00You start off optimistic and you end up being jaded and cynical. Um, so big cities, living in a big city, not just New York, but any big city around the world uh is associated with unhappiness. Yeah, I mean, it's not that you can't be happy in a big city, but you're less likely. Here are the happiest cities to live in in the United States. Flagstaff, Arizona.
SPEAKER_02Okay. I guess sun.
SPEAKER_00I think sun is the major factor in each of these choices. Uh or holes in the ground because that's where the Grand Canyon is. So Flagstaff, Arizona, Naples, Florida.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Great.
SPEAKER_00Which is, you know, on the west coast of Florida and near the water and we get sun. And anywhere in Hawaii. I mean, yeah, but you know, that's another thing that uh doesn't make us happy is spending time on social media.
SPEAKER_02No, really.
SPEAKER_00In fact, it ranks dead last on how much happiness it brings.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's fair.
SPEAKER_00People feel better when they quit jobs and when they quit social media, especially Facebook. So um, this article I was reading, which I'll post uh in the show notes. So if you that the person said, if you want happiness, be with the person you love on an 80-degree sunny day, overlooking a body of water and having sex. So um now I want to talk about this continuum, this idea of happiness as a construct, as a fixed construct, which I don't believe it is, because you know, one way to make someone unhappy is to ask them if they're happy.
SPEAKER_02Oh, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Are you happy? Yeah, are you happy? Are you really are you happy with your job, Madeline? I mean, are you yeah for your boss to go with? So are you happy with how things are going here? And a lot of times you might say yes, but in your mind is doing something else to process that.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00And so I think that when we talk about happiness, we often are talking about a very transitory emotional reaction.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So we're really talking about that moment of joy where we um gotta raise.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Gotta raise.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So wow, that feels really great. But you're not gonna feel really great for the rest of your life.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, even the rest of the week.
SPEAKER_00Maybe, yeah, or maybe the rest of the day, but you'll probably feel pretty good all day about that and and into the morning, but then suddenly you get a flat tire. Right or you're you're life starts happening. Life gets in the way, and you're not really jamming. And then, you know, a week later you find out that this raise comes with you have to spend more time with people you don't like. Oh god. More time at work, which you don't like. Yeah, no, thank you. So, so it's it's not that the raise didn't make you happy, but it was this it was a temporary sort of effect. Where so I like to think of uh satisfaction as being uh something that's can be more of a permanent state. And if you ask somebody, are you satisfied with your job? that creates a different mental space. Absolutely, because that doesn't mean it's perfect, that doesn't mean you're clicking your heels and throwing lilacs into the air every minute, but you're satisfied with the work you're given, with the hours, with the pay. Like it's you're content with it. Um and I think that is a more realistic thing for people to focus on. I think chasing happiness is an illusion because it's so ephemeral. Is that the right word? It's so it's just it's there and it's gone. It's there in a moment.
SPEAKER_02You can't always control when it's gonna appear.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and you can and you can chase it, and you can also feel like there's something wrong with you if you're not happy.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Because that's the implication. Are you happy?
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And oh, you're not happy, why?
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And one of the favorite things I like to say when people say, How are you doing? I say medium.
SPEAKER_02I love that. I usually just say, I'm doing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because it's and people go, oh, medium. Oh, how do we get you? How do we get you to good? It's like, no, I'm good like this. This is nice and easy.
SPEAKER_02I like medium. Medium's great.
SPEAKER_00It's predictable. I feel okay. There's no uh crisis in my life right now that I'm managing. I don't have a lot of um external stress, and so I'm good at being medium. So this idea that satisfaction is more about contentment, which I see is perhaps a longer lasting feeling. Um you can be content with your situation, but not always feel ecstatic about it. Right. But you're content or with your relationship, same kind of thing. Um, you know, things are moving along okay. And, you know, the these moments of joy are few and far between, and they're very fleeting. Okay, they're very fleeting, they don't last very long. My brother uh used to get mad at me before I had these thoughts about the difference between happiness and satisfaction. I would ask him, because I wouldn't see him very often. Yeah, and he was kind of a moody chap anyway. So I would say, Are you happy? And he was like, You always ask me if I'm happy. And the way he would answer that, would say that made me realize he's oh you're not when I ask that, it makes you unhappy.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yes. And um and so I realized now that what I should have said to him and what I would ask him now would be, you know, do you feel satisfied with how your life's going right now? Yeah. And um, because I think that brings about a different kind of response. Are you satisfied with your relationship? Are you satisfied with not having a relationship? So for me, I'm not in a relationship and I'm satisfied.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um that doesn't mean that I don't want one. So I it doesn't mean that I'm okay not having one.
SPEAKER_02Right. But you're not miserable on the daily. You're not sure. Right, yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00I'm content with where my life is. Yeah. And so I think it it's a different way to you should try it out at home. Ask people whether they're satisfied versus whether they're happy and see what kind of response you get. So now I'm gonna ask you to relate to me if you can think of a moment in your life, could be any point in your life when you felt really this feeling of happiness that I'm talking about, which is this momentary, probably not very long lasting, but this moment of pure and utter joy.
SPEAKER_02We were in Florida for um visiting my aunt, and it was 4th of July, and we didn't want to go to some big fireworks celebration or something. So I don't know, we'd gone to dinner, we'd done something else. But what I remember really clearly is that we went out to the beach afterwards at night, and there was no one else around. It was just us, the beach at night, and down the coast we could see fireworks going off. But it wasn't like a big firework show for us, it was just very quiet and peaceful, and we were together, and I took off my shoes and I had my feet in the water, and just like all the stars and the fire. I mean, I don't know, I just felt so connected to the world. It was that feeling of feeling so small, but in a very protected and held sort of way, you know?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's what I think of.
SPEAKER_00Wow, that's a good one.
SPEAKER_02Thank you.
SPEAKER_00That that not only was nice to listen to, but it reminded me of little moments like that in my own life. And it's like, yeah, those are those are good. Those are good, and that's a really good example of what I'm talking about, the between the difference between happiness and satisfaction, where those moments are very precious, they're memorable, um, and they only last a certain amount of time. And I don't think it's I think it's normal to look forward to those moments happening and and everyone deserves those moments, but not to feel like there's anything wrong with you if you're not constantly feeling that super cool feeling of of joy.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00Mine involves my friend Richard Carnow.
SPEAKER_02That's a great name.
SPEAKER_00Richard was my best friend when I moved to Southern California. I was uh met him when I was pretending to be part of the the uh moving team.
SPEAKER_01Oh, of course.
SPEAKER_00I was only nine years old, so I don't know if I was fooling anybody.
SPEAKER_02I was doesn't surprise me at all.
SPEAKER_00This is so you I was doing a lot of like hand gesturing, like and telling people where to put and of course I was really when I was a kid, I did a lot of pretending to be whatever all the time. Yeah, all the time. I would pretend to be a completely different person or to be like, and I a really big part of me thought that I could pull it off. So um I'm sure most kids think like that, but I definitely thought like somebody's believing that I'm on this moving crew, right? Even though I'm really little.
SPEAKER_02They really did hire a nine-year-old. Yeah, it's unethical, but it's happening to direct them.
SPEAKER_00Because and he came, Richard comes walking up the sidewalk and he says, uh immediately, yeah, so you move in here. So it's like I really it was kind of like you not nothing, not even a little bit. You're not gonna play with you're not buying in the space. Commit to the bit. And so uh yeah, so he just you know peered straight through that and we became best friends, and this was before video games or meaningful television choices. So we had to make up a lot of outside games, and a lot of them were a lot of them.
SPEAKER_01Just kidding, it was great.
SPEAKER_00A lot of them revolved around baseball and we made up all kinds of games and we gave them names. Of course. One was called Pitcher Itcher, which sounds bad, but that was a game that we played.
SPEAKER_01It's delightful.
SPEAKER_00But we also played this game called Dive, and the way Dive worked, we could only play it at Richard's house because he had uh actually had a lawn in his backyard, even though there was trees and cement and things around it. So we would take turns throwing a ball up a baseball up in the air over to where the other guy was, but but out of his reach, so he would have to run and dive and catch it.
SPEAKER_02To catch it, okay.
SPEAKER_00And then then he would get a grade or a rating on a one to ten, like how good it was.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00And the side that I like to play on, there was a tree, there was a little space to dive into, and there, but there was a tree blocking, so I wouldn't see the ball until it came over the tree, and then I'd really have to lunge for it. We would play that for hours. Um so one day I'm in an actual baseball game, a little league game, and I played uh third base.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And so that's an infield position, and it was late in the game. The other we were winning, but the other team was starting a rally, and there was a kid on first base, and the guy at bat hit a bloop ball that went over the pitcher's head into this little dead area. If you imagine a baseball diamond, yeah. There's the pitcher's mound, I'm drawing a picture for Madeline, and then there's second base over here, and in this space in between the pitcher's mound and second base, is kind of a no man's land. And people like the second baseman theoretically can get there, and the shortstop can get there, and third base, first everybody can theoretically get there. The pitcher could even turn around and get there, but it if the ball's hit just perfectly, it might just fall in.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so a kid hits a blue ball in this dead space, and I'm on third base, and I see this, and it becomes a game of dive, like the what I've been practicing. So I see the ball, I immediately take off, I lay flat out for the ball, I catch it most improbably. And the kid on first thought there's no way's getting hit. He started to run. Yeah. So I was able to double him off first base and end the game. We win.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, that's delicious, Ross.
SPEAKER_00I gotta tell you, that is the happiest moment of my whole life.
SPEAKER_02Oh man.
SPEAKER_00Happier than any other moment. I've had many happy moments, but that well, there was nothing just the pure joy of that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Everything was perfect about it. And then after the game, I happened to be wandering around somewhere, and I heard my coach, and this is before like coaches gave everybody a trophy and everybody was wonderful. Like, were you actually if you stunk, you didn't get to play very much, and everybody told you you were no good. Um, so I got to hear him. Um, he didn't know I was listening, he was bragging about the play.
SPEAKER_02That's such a tasty feeling when someone compliments you and doesn't know you can hear.
SPEAKER_00Other kids said stuff to me. I had a previous coach come into my dugout and say how great it was, but the best part was it actually happening.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it was just a perfect moment of accomplishment where everything came together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00People are always griping about their current condition, and the reason for that is it's hard to be a human being. Yeah. There is a the world is conspiring uh against us, there's a conspiracy of unhappiness in the world. So we have to, I think, try to set our goals and our intention for satisfaction.
SPEAKER_02It's hard to be a human being, but it's also amazing to be able to do that. It's amazing.
SPEAKER_00It's amazing. But if you're not feeling that happy joy feeling all the time, there's nothing wrong with you. It's totally normal. If you if you're feeling like you know, you have depression like Madeline, yes, you need to get help.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_00But if you're otherwise not struggling with mental illness, and you're just not happy, happy, joy do I don't know. You're not happy, happy. And you and it pisses you off when people ask you if you're happy, you're probably pretty normal.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00I mean, what about that smile thing?
SPEAKER_02Smile. Oh, don't get me started. I know, right? It is something that has a gendered aspect to it too. It does happen more often to people who present as women. And boy, howdy, boy, howdy, does it drive me a fool?
SPEAKER_00I get a little taste of that because I uh have an expressive face.
SPEAKER_02You do have an expressive face. So it is a skill you have.
SPEAKER_00I have, but it's uh my natural resting face has an expression of some kind all the time, even when I'm sleeping.
SPEAKER_02You're very reactive, yeah. Yes, visually reactive.
SPEAKER_00So what I've heard a lot my entire life is what's wrong? And I'm like, what do you mean? Well, you were making a face. I go, well, I have a face.
SPEAKER_02This is just my face.
SPEAKER_00I have a face. What is it? What is it supposed to be? Like tabula rasta, like no features. Do my features melt away?
SPEAKER_02Or how do I Oh you missed the class on that?
SPEAKER_00It's like, well, oh you should be, you look like you're mad or you look like you're upset. I go, no, I just make faces.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'm just experiencing.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes when I'm thinking of something, I maybe my face isn't in a joyful little ha ha ha lilacs. I don't know. So I get a little bit of that. So I get a little taste of what it would be like to be on the other side of that when I'm it happened.
SPEAKER_02I mean, it can happen to anybody. I'm I'm just commenting that it does happen especially often.
SPEAKER_00Wouldn't it be cool if it was perfectly legitimate to slap somebody when they said that?
SPEAKER_02That would be so great. I would love that.
SPEAKER_00Because then you would smile.
SPEAKER_02I would smile about that. I just slap it. That would be delightful. Bitch slapped you, and now I'm feeling momentary joy. I'm smiling, and it does feel good. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00Bitch slap your way to happiness.
SPEAKER_02Maybe that's the episode title.
SPEAKER_00That is the title. I'm writing that down.
SPEAKER_02There it is. There it is. We found the title.
SPEAKER_00Um I I I wanted to talk about this, and I wanted to talk about this to someone who I see is almost perpetually in a good mood. So thank you. Good for you.
SPEAKER_02Thanks.
SPEAKER_00For being that positive light in my life.
SPEAKER_02Aw, right back at you, bud.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for being here for the show and doing this.
SPEAKER_02Thanks for having me. And seeing you in general and also being here are some of the things that bring me joy.
SPEAKER_00So wow, that's that's flattering.
SPEAKER_02It's true.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. And thanks to all of you for joining us as well. I hope you like our show. And if you do, I hope you will share it. You can also follow us on Instagram. You can rate us, especially on iTunes. If you could go on iTunes and rate us and give us a stellar review, a handful of you have done that, and that helps people find us. And you can also, if you're feeling super wealthy, like making over 75k, you can support us on Patreon. We appreciate your considering that. And we hope you will tune in to another episode because whether you are a depressed eight year old, but otherwise pretty happy, or just someone trying not to look at Jeff Bezos, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans. Bye, everybody. Bye.