SPEAKER_03 0:00

And uh it's not uncommon and to be visiting a friend and notice in the medicine cabinet that they've got some Prozac, some Zolof, some Lexa Pro.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

Sorry, I think it might be a little uncommon to look in your friend's medicine cabinet when you visit them.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

Welcome to another episode of Smells Like Humans. This is the podcast where we explore the curious things that people do, the very human things that grab our attention and cause us to wonder what and why. I'm Ross, your host, and today, my guest is everyone's favorite therapist, the always insightful Tracy.

SPEAKER_00 0:38

Oh, well, thank you. I'm glad to be here.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

Thanks for being here. And our guest host for this episode is so talented and clever. She once taught a mouthy raccoon how to play cribbage, Madeline. Hello, Madeline. I thought we said we'd keep that story a secret, Ross.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Not a secret anymore.

SPEAKER_03 0:57

And uh welcome everyone, friends. Uh, we are so glad to have you here. Please help us by sharing the show. That is the number one thing you can do. I know you want to help us somehow. You don't need to send us cookies, you don't need to send us get well cards, you just need to share the show with people that you like and that you think will like what we do. We'll talk more about that at the end. I want to let you know that we right now are recording this at Portland Underground Studio, which is the place to be if you want to record something. It's true. Now, we know a lot of humans over the past couple of years have been through a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

Really? It's true.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

All of us have been put under extra stress because of the pandemic. So we've had all our normal stresses associated with the world, our local communities, plus the extra stress of the uncertainty, fear, sickness, and even death associated with this virus. And we want you to feel better.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

We want you out there when you're listening to this right now, folding your laundry, or um, what is it called? Strap hanging. You're strap hanging your way to work.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Strap hanging? Yeah, when you're riding the subway.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Oh, gosh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:18

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

Strap hanging, or you're weeding your garden, or you're on your walk, or you're chasing animals out of the woods.

SPEAKER_02 2:27

Playing cribbage with a raccoon.

SPEAKER_03 2:29

We want you to feel better, but you know what? I feel like we've been traumatized over the last couple years.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

We have been.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Tracy the therapist. Confirmed. Confirmed.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

You heard it here first, folks.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Probably not first.

SPEAKER_03 2:44

And I'm wondering if I was thinking about it, and like a lot of trauma that we go through, like a car accident or something. I don't know if we fully appreciate what we've been through yet.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Well, I mean, like you said, much like you you can't really process the trauma until you're on the other side of it.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

And we're not there yet.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

No, and trauma, I mean, the di the definition of trauma is um having an event occur or multiple events occur without the resources to process what's happening in the moment. Yeah. So then the processing has to get delayed.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

And since it just keeps happening, we just keep building it without the ability to really process it. We're just these pressure cookers.

SPEAKER_03 3:27

So I broke down what the uh my time in COVID land so far into different phases because my behavior is.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

The worst, the worst Alice in Wonderland has been.

SPEAKER_03 3:39

That's the worst board game in COVID land.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Ross in COVID land.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

Wow, that's a great idea. Phase one.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Yes, go on.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

When we first learned that there was COVID or something called COVID, but we didn't really know anything. No, yeah. But we were told, hey, you might want to stop doing making out too on the bus with strangers.

SPEAKER_02 4:03

You know, make sure you wash your hands a lot.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Yeah, wash your hands. There's all this advice about don't touch your face. As if, by the way, I'm touching all my body parts all day long.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

I touch my face all day.

SPEAKER_03 4:13

Come on, I'm not gonna stop touching stuff. Anyway, phase one I'm calling giddy hibernation.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 4:21

Why? Why? Because I was working, I was busy, I had a million social things, I had performance obligations as a performer. And all of that just stopped. Yes. And something about that made me feel like on a forced vacation. Yeah. I don't have to do any of these things. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

It was a little bit of relief, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:46

It was a relief. And uh I had just gotten off, like I'd love to talk about on the show. I had just gotten off social media, so I had all this peace and quiet and solitude, and I could watch like bad television. Yes. So I immediately watched, and this was not a sad thing, it sounds sad, but I watched like all of the episodes, all the seasons of The Amazing Race.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Oh my gosh, incredible.

SPEAKER_03 5:12

Oh and I was so happy. Yes, it was like, he, this is so fun. I'm in this little joyous space, and it'll end soon. I'll have to go back to everything.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Just be a couple months.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

Did you have any of that reaction? Yes. Giddy hibernation? Did you hibernate? Were you happy or were you just miserable? What was it like?

SPEAKER_00 5:31

Go ahead, Tracy. Well, at the time I was living in that house with my partner, his two kids, and my two kids. And so there were six people.

SPEAKER_03 5:40

It was a menagerie.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

Yeah, it was a menagerie. And part of that was really fun. Right. Because it was like, ooh, let's play board games and cook stuff and hang out, and we'll all be together, and I never get this much time with all you people, and that was great. And then we don't have to go anywhere. I don't have to take children to any places. No one has obligations. Oh, darn, we can't go to that all weekend volleyball tournament in Albany. Right. And um, that was great. All of that was so fantastic for a time.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

Uh-huh. For a hot second. I have a suspicion that my first two phases are gonna be flipped because I did have that phase, but it was after the overwhelming depression of being laid off from a job that I love immensely.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

So I I have a suspicion that my phases are flipped because I my last day of work was Friday, the 13th of March. Uh never forget it. And on Monday, we were told that the company I work for was laying off um something like 98% of the employees or something to just go to absolute skeleton crew. Um, and I had no idea if I was gonna have a job back at the end of it, and it was a job that I had worked really hard for and really love. I did happy ending, end up getting that job back, and I'm in it now, and I still love it.

SPEAKER_01 6:58

That's good news.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Um, in some ways it's actually better than it was before because I get to do it work from home now, which is a blessing, and I love it. Um, but at the time it was just I remember calling my parents and sobbing on the phone to them for something like two hours, just the world is changing and I don't know what to do about it.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

And I think that's fair. I think for a lot of people, it meant the end of their job and there was no way of knowing, you know, what was next and how they were gonna deal with that. And so I think I was in a unique situation because I um, you know, I wasn't in a situation where I'm living paycheck to paycheck. So I could miss a few months of a paycheck and I was okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Right. Once I was through the kind of immediate depression of it, I was able to go, okay, it is actually kind of nice to get a few a few weeks or a month here before I start getting depressed again.

SPEAKER_03 7:48

So after the giddy hibernation, that lasted, yeah, I don't know, how many, how long does it take you to get through the amazing race? There's a lot of seasons, like 30 seasons. Yeah. And I watched them all back to back. Oh, yeah. Yo, just marathon through it.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

Put it in your veins.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

I watched this, I would watch a season and then I would read about it on uh the fan wiki.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Sure love that.

SPEAKER_03 8:12

So I would go back and say what was all. Shout out to fan wikis.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Shout out to fan wikis, the Star Wars fan wiki, Wikipedia, the people who run that thing, incredible.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

I told no one about this. It's the first time I've ever said this afterwards. That is what I did this. I trust you and both of you, but I don't want anyone to tell you. No one else. Yeah, don't tell anyone to tell anybody else. No one else in my life. It's funny when you do a podcast and you tell personal stories, I will get texts from people going, You did what? It's like, come on, man. Come on. We all have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Yes, yes, for like and subscribe and share.

SPEAKER_03 8:46

Thank you for listening. Share, share my personal embarrassment with other people. Right. Phase two, sloth, stress, and irritability. So much. That's phase two.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Yeah, that.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

And people before everyone got the memo about what COVID was, they would walk right in your space, and people would be running. Yes. And uh they would breathe on you, and I would be and I would literally say to people, hey, make an effort. Like just let's all have a bubble. Personal bubble. And uh I so I was a little irritable with people in that. I would felt like every day I put on a stress blanket.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah, and some sweatpants. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

Yeah, a lot of sweatpants, and a lot of uh the the that fun time when I was binging all the 30 seasons of The Amazing Race. Yes. Now I was like watching anything. Oh like anything on TV. Subtitles.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Oh, I love subtitles.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

I do not mind them, but I mean I was just watching like 20 hours of television.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Yes, and it was bad, and you started running into the idea that there was nothing left to watch. Right. Yes, which was also grump-inducing.

SPEAKER_03 9:57

But I did not stop watching even though.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Oh, me neither.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

I watched terrible things, the worst things, the worst things.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Yeah, things that didn't make sense. I watched The Witcher. I know. I love The Witcher. It makes no sense waiting for it. But it makes no sense. I can't follow it. There's not a place.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Well, especially the first season is completely non-chronological and they never explain why it's non-chronological.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

Okay, you're a book person, Madeline. So I have been reading a lot of.

SPEAKER_02 10:24

I read. I I work with books, I think is making it. Yeah, that's my job. That's my job.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

I didn't mean to sh say you weren't didn't read. That's like actually my living. No, I'm not sure. I know that you read.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

You you may not have known this, but that's my that's my job. So I work with I work with children's books specifically, but but all age books are literally. Okay, this is news to me.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

I just want to point out that I read. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:44

Tracy reads, let it be known. Tracy reads. I um and that's the end of our show, folks. Yeah. I um I have been reading more fiction.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

Uh huh.

SPEAKER_03 10:55

And I've noticed a trend in new fiction.

SPEAKER_02 10:58

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 11:00

It's not only not chronological, but they have uh, of course, multiple characters, but they keep jumping jumping perspectives. They have the yeah, but it's not even the same. They're on a different timeline.

SPEAKER_02 11:12

Yeah, that has definitely come into vogue, I think.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

And I don't like it.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

I like it. I it is a like writing trope, it's not quite the right word, but it's style that is definitely coming into vogue. And I'm someone who in general, I like something like that if it is done well and if it serves the story. And so if it's something that they're just kind of the author is clearly doing it because they're fascinated with this type of thing and it doesn't actually serve the story, I'm not into it.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

You know what I thought I would do in that second phase of COVID was read more things like that so I could have intelligent conversations like this. And I didn't.

SPEAKER_02 11:50

No. I I well, I think that I was deep in trauma brain, right? And so I did not actually have the brain space to engage with with stuff.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

So there's a thing uh you may have heard of Tracy, the therapist, called distract depression. Yes. And it's it's this combination of not being able to focus on anything like a book. Yes, but also feeling depressed, and irritable and grumpy and restless. Yeah, I've never heard of distract depression, have you?

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Well, it came up during COVID most of the time.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

That's what that's what it is, yeah. Yeah. Phase three, this is when things got a little dark. Oh loneliness and drinking.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Oh that one not as much for me. I mean, I I did actually probably drink more during COVID than I have ever drunk regularly before, but that's because I'm I'm inches away from being a teetotaler, not for any reason other than that I don't like being drunk, so I just don't drink a lot.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:46

Um, so when I say I was drinking more than any other time of my life, I was having a gin and tonic like three nights a week. Like one gin and tonic.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

But that's a lot for you.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

But for me, that was a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

For me, it was really became a thing. At five o'clock, I'm pouring a drink.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

That's so fair.

SPEAKER_03 13:01

And I was a you know, we all have our coping mechanisms, and and it just became something I started looking forward to. We needed things to look forward to. My dog passed away. My I was really close to my dog, he passed away. So the first year of COVID, we were kind of doing it together. The second he was gone by the second year, and so that's when it like I felt really down. But I wasn't, I don't, um for me, the drink at the end of the day, it was obviously coping, but it wasn't like I'm so sad I need a drink. It's more like I'm looking for this is my room. I'm gonna get tanked. But baked up. It had to be five o'clock. There you go. Could you find yeast? Because I could not find yeast.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

I eventually found some yeast. Jordan, my dear roommate, found me packets of God, it was the weirdest yeast. It was like specifically for pretzels or something very pretzel yeast. And it was like the only thing he could find, and I adore him.

SPEAKER_03 13:54

Then phase four. Phase four, we got to the point where uh we started getting some of us vaccines.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

Yeah, yeah. Thank God.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

So that was sort of selectively reconnecting with people, but I was still very cautious. Not because I could people would say in my life, Oh, why are you so afraid? I'm not afraid. I go, it's not fear, it's logic.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Right. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 14:14

So did you find yourself like in that phase of like, okay, let me just kind of put poke my head out of my shell and take a look and start doing stuff.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

I did. I started reaching out more. I I mean, I I had felt I I was living with a bunch of people, including children, but uh that loneliness and that lack of connection with other people was hard.

SPEAKER_03 14:34

It was hard. I missed um, I missed like just what I called incidental touches.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

Like the barista.

SPEAKER_03 14:42

Yeah, yeah, the barista, or the like just shaking somebody's hand or like you know, hey buddy, a little hug, whatever. The hug or the hug.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

I think we were all and continue to be in a lot of ways so touch-starved through this.

SPEAKER_03 14:55

Yeah, uh, that was phase four. Phase five is where we are now. I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm doing a lot more social things, all of them mostly outside. Yes, but I feel like phase six is right at our doorstep. I which is the next thing that we don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Yes, yeah, yeah. I will say the most positive thing I've gotten out of this experience is I never would have had this much time with my teenagers, and I think our relationship is different because of it. That's really cool. I really, really enjoy them. Yeah. And I got to because we were all just there, like they weren't out doing all the things, which has its other negative sides of that, right? But um I think I have a much closer relationship with the two of them. That's really lovely, and such an enjoyable one.

SPEAKER_03 15:42

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Uh so I think that was a plus from it.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

But I've been filled with a lot of gratitude, yeah, which is not a normal thing for me. The people in my life that I really care about, I have had such better experiences because I've allowed myself to like, hey, this is really cool to spend time with these people. Appreciate it. Yeah. Because you spent a couple of years in your little giddy hibernation watching the amazing race, and that kind of sucked. Yeah. So it's kind of similar to what you're saying, I think, that it's like, wow, what an opportunity. And all the rethinking of everything that everyone's done, like what do I want to do with my life?

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Well, and I can be work from home now, the rethinking of how we work things, right?

SPEAKER_03 16:27

And I all this office stuff. Forget that.

SPEAKER_02 16:30

I do think that there is hopefully potentially that we're moving towards a more accessible society, kind of as a byproduct of this. I think that there are some ways in which having so many more virtual options and things help um people who uh don't have the ability to be otherwise involved in things, even outside of COVID, right? So hopefully we stick with some of that technology and keep advancing it.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

So during this time, people have been stressed out. We know that. People have been suffering, not just me.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

No.

SPEAKER_03 16:59

Other people apparently apparently I thought it was just me.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

Dear listeners are apparently suffering. They're and they're sorry, dear listeners.

SPEAKER_03 17:05

Maybe they're watching the amazing race, maybe they're not. I do recommend it all 30 seasons. It's good. Don't forget the fan wiki. So uh I was reading an article which I'll post in the show notes that uh prescriptions for antidepressants have gone up, yeah, especially for teenagers, a little higher for women than men. And uh it's not uncommon and to be visiting a friend and notice in the medicine cabinet that they've got some ProZacks, some Zolof, some Lexa Pro.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Sorry, I think it might be a little uncommon to look in your friend's medicine cabinet when you visit them.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

You would be surprised. This is a thing that people do. I think people do it. And you know, when people do this very often, uh I have heard that when people uh in the old days when you'd be selling a house and people would come over to visit and look at the house, typically you weren't there. The realtors typically don't want the owners there, they just get in the way. If I'm shopping for a house and the owner's there, I feel like I can't really look at the house. And if they're saying things like, and this is a really great window for the morning light, like I want to just leave, like stay out of it. Let me have my own experience.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Let me experience it anyway.

SPEAKER_03 18:11

Apparently, it's common when people go into these, even if they're just looking at an apartment, whatever, they go and look at your medicine and sometimes they steal it.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

Oh, I hate that.

SPEAKER_03 18:19

Yes, this happens. This is a real thing. By the way, I recently read that some medicine, even though it has an expire date, an expiry date, uh it can go on for 30 or 40 years. They found that even after 40 years, some medicine retains over 80% of its potency.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

Like aspirin is something that you can keep forever. Yeah, and it'll still help you. Um, anyway, so prescriptions have gone up not just for depression, but also for uh ADHD.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Yes, a lot.

SPEAKER_03 18:57

Especially ages 20 to 44. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Are people have people had more time to seek diagnoses when they're not in the grind? Is that what some of it is?

SPEAKER_03 19:05

It goes back to this thing, and I'm gonna ask Tracy to speak to it, but this thing that people have been experiencing that they're calling distract depression, but something about this time where people who either formerly were on medication but had gotten off, maybe they were still in therapy but they hadn't gotten better, or they were on medication but now they need higher doses. Right. And somehow the the stress of the pandemic has made it harder for people not only wrestling with depression, but it's also made it harder for people to concentrate, to to do the things they need to do during the day without some medical intervention. Is that Reed? Is that a good idea?

SPEAKER_00 19:42

Yeah, I I think that's accurate. And when we learn more and more about ADHD, it's um highly related to uh dopamine. Uh, we're learning more and more that it's very dopamine related. And dopamine is also related to anxiety, depression, those kinds of things. So, you know, whether we look at how an ADHD brain is working, I mean, it's all I don't know, we put it in these buckets. Um, I could go on a soapbox about this, right? But point being, medications are one tool in our toolbox for addressing these things. And we as a society are getting better and better at understanding them, better and better at prescribing them, better and better at understanding that they are really helpful. Also, when people are unable to change their circumstance to make things better, then we have to look at, well, then how do we change how you're feeling in your circumstance?

SPEAKER_01 20:30

Right.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

So then we look at medications to help do that or other things. I mean, there's lots of tools in the toolbox. Medication is one of them. And I think doctors are also when people are showing up being like, I'm miserable, and the doctors are like, Well, I have a tool for you. Yeah, let's try it. And so I think doctors are more willing to prescribe too because they're feeling helpless.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

I I was surprised to see that it's the statistic is something like over 80% of the prescriptions written for antidepressants are written by GPs.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Yes. Which I find concerning.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

Because they're not in any kind of talk therapy.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Right. I find that concerning in that often, you know, one, I'm so glad that those are accessible to people and I want them to be able to use them. Also, they're just one tool in the toolbox and then they help the talk therapy, meditation, other tools work better. So if you're only using that, um that may not be the the best approach. I I think more tools in the toolbox are better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:33

Yeah, I I I think I agree with that. And I think it's interesting because there's always been a debate uh over my lifetime. You know, is talk therapy more effective? Is medical intervention more uh effective? Is it the combination? Do you need the medicine before you can be ready for talk therapy? All of that.

SPEAKER_02 21:49

I think that's entirely person to person.

SPEAKER_03 21:51

But also what I'm hearing now from the latest experts, they're saying we're not even sure if this these uh psychoactives. This medical approach actually is a solution for most people. And that really it's actually talk therapy that is what people need to be doing. Like that needs to be an if you're suffering, you need to be doing that.

SPEAKER_00 22:15

Well, because they address different things. Right. Okay. I mean, the medication addresses the chemistry in the brain, which is helpful. And the chemistry in the brain is impacted by biology and habits and behavior. So that's where I think it's difficult because it ideally it's a conversation between the therapist and the doctor and the client to help determine what the best approach is for them. Sometimes people are so in the hole that the talk therapy can't work very well. They need to come out of the hole a little bit. So you use a medication, it helps them come out of the hole, and then they can use the talk therapy more. Sometimes the combination of the two, or sometimes those plus body work plus meditation. There's all those tools.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

And we love you and you should reach out if you need help. Yes, there's a crisis line in every county.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

And all you have to do is Google that crisis line. And also you can just Google uh suicide hotline. And there is a suicide hotline, there's one for teens in particular. There's all options. So please reach out if that's the case. Also, reach out to your doctor if you are having difficulty. And if doctors are prescribing this, that should be something they're having a conversation with. And if you've started a medication and your therapist doesn't know, please let your therapist know.

SPEAKER_03 23:38

Yeah. Be brave, reach out.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

Let's get rid of any shame around going to therapy. Going to therapy is so incredibly brave because it's you saying there's something, there's something that I need help with that I don't know how to fix, and I'm gonna go to a professional who knows how to help me through this. And that takes so much courage, and there is no shame in that.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Also, if you just are curious about yourself and want to learn more about self-exploration. Something does not have to be quote unquote wrong for you to want to be curious about yourself. Thank you for saying more about yourself and seek therapy to just explore your own inner working.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

If you don't feel like you may, you may sort of be in between. You don't necessarily need to go into therapy right now, you don't necessarily need a medical intervention, but you just want to feel a little better. We here we're here for you, and I have a plan. And I'm gonna go through my plan.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

Is it bread and butter?

SPEAKER_03 24:31

That should be on it. That should be on it. We're adding that.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:35

Um, but I want to go through the steps quickly here and see if you uh agree, disagree, or have uh modifications, including bread and butter, which I think could be in every step. Yeah. So these are steps that are completely free to most people.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Free.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

Uh they're not my favorite price. If they're not free, depending on your circumstances, they probably won't be too expensive. Um, but mostly they're free. So that's what I love about this program. Yes, free. And it has individual steps. Step one, take a break from social media. Yeah. If you're on social media, go off for at least two weeks. No cheating.

SPEAKER_00 25:14

That's good. I like it.

SPEAKER_03 25:15

No exceptions. You can text, you can email, all that stuff, but no social media apps. The verdict's in, these apps will mess you up, especially right now. So just take two weeks off and see how you feel. I guarantee you, at the end of the two weeks, probably sooner, probably after the first day, you're gonna start feeling better. You don't feel like you're missing out, you're glad you're missing out.

SPEAKER_02 25:38

And I don't I don't think those apps are categorically evil or bad for you, but I think that they are inherently addictive. And that's why we do them too much.

SPEAKER_03 25:45

Stop breaking your phone. Just take a break.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Live in the moment, turn them off with the people in front of you.

SPEAKER_03 25:51

It'll yes, it'll only feel weird a little bit. And then you'll start getting used to the fact, yeah, I guess I don't really need to have my phone with me all the time. Yeah. Like I don't need to sleep next to my phone. No. Okay, that's step one. Step two, do not watch any cable or local news for two weeks.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Oh, I don't watch any of it really. Good for you. It doesn't help me.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

The exception is if your town just blew up, yes, watch the news.

SPEAKER_02 26:22

But get your little news alerts when they're important.

SPEAKER_03 26:25

But don't watch cable news, local news programming. Do not watch even the talking head shows that aren't technically news or opinion.

SPEAKER_00 26:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 26:35

Even if you like them, yes, even if they say everything you believe, no, they're step away. They're all based on creating a culture of fear in your life because that keeps you watching. Yes. Even your favorite thing that the favorite person, you love to watch them every night.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

They're not there to help you. No.

SPEAKER_03 26:54

No, they are there to get you stressed and so you'll keep until you that they're the solution.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:00

And it is designed that way. It's just like fast food is designed to make us keep eating it. Yes. Well, these shows are designed, including their local news, they're designed to make you feel afraid and make you want to keep watching.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 27:16

So take two weeks off from that. So now, no no social media, no news.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Russ, what are you gonna do then? Other than eat bread.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

Okay, so here's the next step. What's next? Step three. Take a purposeless walk. What? Three times per week. No. Or more if you want. Well, 30 to 45 minutes. Uh three times a week. It's not asking a lot.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Outside. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

Outside, again, circumstances permitting. Outside. Uh, if you can find a safe space, usually you can find a park, you can find a mall. Yeah. You can go to a school track.

SPEAKER_02 27:57

This might sound depressing, but there's a beautiful cemetery right next to me that I love to walk through. I love it. It doesn't sound depressing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

And it's and it's on brand for you.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

Honestly, right? It makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

See you walking through like in a dark robe slowly. Yeah. Um, so yeah, it has to be a purposeless walk, though. Yes. So walk saying, well, I have to go to the grocery store, I'll guess I'll walk. That's that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

It's good, but you gotta walk for the sake of walking.

SPEAKER_03 28:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

So like lost in your head, wander.

SPEAKER_03 28:25

I find that that is a perfect time for meditating on your life, your thoughts, what's going on, problems in your life, issues you're having. It is great. Plus, you're walking, hello. It's good for you. And it's actually a decent walking pace. I'm not saying you don't you have to walk fast, but if you walk at a decent walking pace, it is uh in terms of exercise, it is roughly equivalent to those slow joggers you see.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

Yes, yeah, it's good for our bodies to be active.

SPEAKER_03 28:54

Good for you. You feel better and you have all that thinking time. The one thing I will say about walking, please, no matter who told you to do this, do not swing your arms wildly or in a strange manner. It's alarming. Nobody wants to see that. You know what I mean? The people with the like they do the arm swing because their doctor said you've got to move your arms. Yes, right. Uh nobody wants to see that.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

There's a man in my neighborhood who has an arm pull up, just one side pulls up real high. I don't want to see it.

SPEAKER_03 29:23

It makes me nauseous.

SPEAKER_00 29:24

It's uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_03 29:25

Just keep your arms down. No, just walk normal. Normal arm swing.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

We still have a physical tick, which of course Well, that's a whole different thing.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

Step four. I know this will resonate with you, Tracy, because you were saying this to me just recently. Do you remember what you were saying about your social life?

SPEAKER_00 29:43

Was it about Marie Kondo?

SPEAKER_03 29:44

It was. Yes! Marie Kondo, your social life. Yes. What does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_00 29:49

So for me, that means Marie Kondo, for those who don't know, is all about decluttering and bringing only keeping things in your physical space that bring you joy. And letting go of the things that no longer bring you joy by giving thanks to them and having gratitude towards them and allowing them to go. I have for years have thought of the idea of social decluttering, which is marie condoing your social life, which does the same thing. Looking at relationships in your life and saying, Does this relationship still bring me joy? If not, I can allow it to go. And it doesn't have to be dramatic, it can just be an allowing it to move through and give gratitude and appreciate what it brought to you and then letting it go. I I think if you're going with this, I this is one of the things that I've done in the pandemic, is that I've really thought about the relationships that bring me the most joy and kept them in my world and allowed others to go. Yes, and it feels great.

SPEAKER_03 30:45

We're not recommending something and asking you to be the guinea pigs. We've actually tried this. This works. Cut down the time you spend with people that are joy sucks in your life, they suck the joy out of your life, spend less time with them. And I've come up with a thing called, you've heard of FOMO.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 31:02

I've heard of Jomo, the joy of missing out. I came up with IMO, which is intentionally missing out. So how do you decide when it's okay to miss out on something? So let's say you're invited to a thing, but you're not feeling that excited about it, but you go because uh I don't want to miss it because people might be there. And that's it. Okay, I that is not that I call that a hobnob. So you have to give the hobnob test. So hobnobbing is interacting with people. Typically, they're somehow a higher status or they have some sort of social cachet, and so you don't want to miss out on the opportunity to mix, like whatever, like, oh, this is where all the happening people are. So recently in my own life, I had two things come up. One was with a group, a small group of friends, and we were talking about a new theater project, and I was very excited about it, and there was, I really want to do it, and that was joyful, and I did it. Then there was another thing coming up that weekend where a bigger group of people were gonna get together for an outdoor fun activity that I've been to many times, and it is fun, but it's always been more of a networking, show your face, don't worry. And so that's more of a hobnob. And I thought about it and I go, I'm not doing any hobnobbing. Yeah. Cutting down on the hobnobbing. So yeah, I missed it intentionally. I chose not to go because I felt like, no, I'm not really going there. I don't have the same joy that I have going to this other thing. So you cut down on the hobnobbing, you feel better.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:39

So step one, take a break from social media. Step two, take a break from the news. Step three, take a purposeless walk three times per week or more. Don't swing your arms. Step four, Marie Kondo, your social life. Uh huh. All these things are free. Step five, it might cost you something, but maybe not. Read a guilty pleasure book.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

Ooh, yes. Ah, that is my bread and butter. Speaking of bread and butter.

SPEAKER_03 33:02

Bread and butter. You can it can be one of those things you buy at a 7-Eleven that has like dramatic people on the front.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Yes, and bodice rippers. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Oh my goodness. And you don't even think about it again. I have read so many books over the last year that I don't even remember the name of them. No! They didn't resonate. They just were fluffy and fun. And easy and fun. And it was great. God, I'm all about that.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

I'm all about that.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

A bodice ripper.

SPEAKER_02 33:29

And I'm I want more bodice rippers.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

That's what they call those based on the old, you know, illustrations of the reason I put that on there is because for a uh for a lot of people like Tracy who read.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:40

Uh it is um I'm a reader. They don't read stuff that they really like because they feel like, oh, it's not this isn't like educational enough or highbrow enough. Or, you know, this isn't the top 100 books right now or whatever. Read what brings you joy. Yeah, just read the trashiest crap. But it's it's the reason I put that on the list is because it is uh um it it makes you feel better. It's just like it's time to yourself. Yes, you can immerse yourself in a narrative, and I just love those books that you just want to keep turning the pages and are so delicious. So that's those are my five steps. Mostly free or free because you can find books for free as well. Not for sure. No, no. I've seen a lot of communities lately who have stuff.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Yeah, and the little free libraries.

SPEAKER_01 34:28

Little free libraries, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

If you can look up online, a lot of them are registered with like GPS tags if you look up little free libraries and you can figure out where they are. They're also regular libraries. True, God, love libraries. What's your stuff? Libraries are so important. They're facing they're facing big challenges right now in terms of censorship and things. And the way that you can you can help your local library uh is by being a patron first and foremost, by joining your friends of the library and donating. They also operate on city funding, so by paying attention to those initiatives and getting your library better funded. But just getting a library card and checking stuff out. And with your library card, a lot of places have audiobooks, exactly that, where you can just rent audiobooks and listen to them. And you can rent movies. There are movie systems you can rent virtually each.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

I've done a ton of that. Thank you both for joining me for this discussion.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:21

I I hope you uh will put my five steps into action and will report on it later if you're in fact feeling better. I know that you're doing a lot of these things right now. If you like what we're doing out there, uh please help us. Share the show, support us on Patreon, uh, follow us on Instagram, reach out to us. We love hearing from you, and we will respond. And we hope you will tune in to another episode because whether you are hooked on hobnobbing or just reading a bodice ripper, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans. Goodbye, everybody. Bye.