SPEAKER_03 0:00

Dude, did you know that they didn't want to let women ride on trains when trains were invented? Because they thought that if a woman's body went that fast, their uterus would just fly out of their body.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Oh, but that's not true?

SPEAKER_03 0:11

No.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

Oh. No. I'm glad you meant that.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

It's not. I mean, it's it's also assuming that all women have uteruses and that all people with uteruses are women, but that's neither.

SPEAKER_01 0:19

And that uteruses can fly.

SPEAKER_03 0:20

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

Welcome to another episode of Smells Like Humans. This is the podcast where we explore the curious things that people do, the very human things that grab our attention and cause us to wonder what and why. I'm Ross, your host, and today's guest is so competent. She can help you find your hypotenuse in the dark. It's Madeline.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Ah, hi, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Yeah, great to have you. Welcome everyone. Thanks for being here and thanks for showing up every week. We're into our third season. I'd say we're well into it now.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

Oh my god, we're in it. We're deep in it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

We can't even say we're not doing a third season now because we're actually in it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

And we appreciate you sharing our show. Oh my goodness. That's the best thing you can do to help us. Just tell people about us. We are totally independent, organic, homegrown, and we depend on you. If you like what we're doing, please let someone in your life know about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:24

And we're narcissistic and we like people talking about us.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Well, yeah, we do have issues, but we're not afraid to admit.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

But we share them for your entertainment.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

We share them widely and openly. We're always being told to exercise.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Article after article after article has been written about what sort of exercise is good for us. I don't know if you've seen like all these different workouts, like three-minute workout, five-minute workout, seven-minute.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Well, and we're recording this in January, which is prime time of year for, you know, oh, your New Year's resolution, get in shape. We're gonna yell at you on every possible platform about fitness and diet and exercise and all of the different things.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Yeah, so there's all these exercise routines and they're constantly telling us how much exercise we need. And I always feel like they lower the bar even more because people still aren't doing anything.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

Oh no, I like I have a desk job, right? So you'll see these articles that are like, no, really, just stand up once an hour for a minute.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Maybe do one jumping jack, please, God.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Pick up a pencil, do that, can you do that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's there, I mean, I'm serious. Like they I read like now, okay. Can you balance on one foot for five seconds? Right. Can you do that? Can you do that? And it's like, wow, they are really dropping the bar. The days of like the president's fitness plan or all that stuff. Oh, there's a really goofy song.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

Is there?

SPEAKER_01 2:56

I think it was called Go, You Chicken Fat Go.

SPEAKER_03 2:59

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 3:06

Get ready for it. I'm ready. That's the flabby guy.

SPEAKER_02 3:53

Yeah, that's just I don't like that. What? Yes. This is wild. This is the least fun activity dance song I can imagine.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

For many years, there have been attempts one way or another to inculcate the value of exercise.

SPEAKER_03 4:23

Can you repeat that sentence? That was delicious.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Um over the year, I'm gonna paraphrase that. I don't know what I said. Over the years, there have been many attempts to inculcate our youth with the value of exercise.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

Inculcate.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

I don't know this word. Well, we're gonna have to look it up. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

I think I'm using it correctly. It means to basically instill.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

I love that a value of exercise. And so a lot of humans when they were little had to take PE class. Now, did you go to a school?

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

You weren't homeschooled.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

No.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

For some reason I started thinking you were homeschooled. I was You seem like a homeschooled kid.

SPEAKER_03 5:05

I'm gonna take that as fine. Uh no, I went to public school. I went to a good public school, a series of public schools. Um, I was homeschooled for one month when my mom pulled me out of school as a protest because they wouldn't and this was very good of her, they wouldn't be switch me out of a class with a teacher who uh was verbally abusive to students. Wow, your mom. Wow, that is awesome. Yeah, I told her a a story of something that had happened in class and upset me, and she asked some questions about other things he'd said, and it was really shitty. And she tried to get them to to switch me, or you know, you know, cancel this guy's class would be ideal, but uh they wouldn't switch me. Uh uh they'd had a lot of parents request their kids swap classes to be with friends, etc. And she was like, that's not what's happening here. This person is bullying my child. Um so she pulled me out of school as a protest for a month until they'd cave.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

That's a bold move by a parent. I never occurred to me to pull my kid out and protest.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Yeah, she kept she kept pestering them until they'd change it. She's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

And they did?

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Yeah, they they finally let me switch classes.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

You actually had PE because they're getting rid of it a lot of schools now.

SPEAKER_03 6:15

Yeah, uh, by the time I was in high school, you weren't required to take it every year. You had to take it, I think like two maybe it was like four semesters total, like you know, half of each year or something. You read that.

SPEAKER_01 6:26

And that doesn't even make sense, really. What did you do for exercise?

SPEAKER_03 6:30

Okay, so now I was in several organized sports, but I would not say that I played them. I was that kid on the soccer field that was like staring up at the sky and telling myself stories in my head about unicorns and shit, and then the ball comes flying at me, and I'm like, all right, I'm supposed to do shit.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yes, I knew kids like that. That was me.

SPEAKER_03 6:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:49

I knew kids like that.

SPEAKER_03 6:50

Yeah. So I was I did, you know, soccer teams and stuff. I did um my parents made me run cross-country freshman year of high school to get some some activity and et cetera, et cetera.

SPEAKER_01 7:00

Did you like doing those things?

SPEAKER_03 7:02

Um, I had childhood exercise-induced asthma. So there were some activities like running that were not easy for my body to do.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

What did you say?

SPEAKER_03 7:13

Childhood exercise-induced asthma. I had an inhaler and and stuff. I would get basically my lungs were not good at um that kind of physical activity. Let me ask you this question.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

If you've got an inhaler in hand, can you skip the line at Disneyland?

SPEAKER_03 7:29

I don't think so, no.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

If you say, hey, I've got childhood. Exercise induced asthma.

SPEAKER_03 7:35

And you've got the inhaler and you're going, No, my sister used to work at Disney and they were pr they're pretty so many people have something, right? Like it has to be pretty, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

What if you've got an inhaler and a limp?

SPEAKER_03 7:50

I don't know, maybe.

SPEAKER_01 7:52

Talk it up. How about a head bandage?

SPEAKER_03 7:55

That might be.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

An inhaler. What is the magic collection of things that you can put together through the magic key to the magic kingdom? I know they let people who are physically challenged.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

As they should, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Yeah, I have no problem with that. I just want to know how to get in on it.

SPEAKER_03 8:09

Right, right.

unknown 8:10

Of course you do.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Of course you do. You don't want to be part of that team.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

Right, of course. But the only option available to me was regular run-of-the-mill PE class. It is called PE physical education. We do a bunch of random stuff.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

In the early 1900s, the basic idea was people are more and more living in cities.

SPEAKER_03 8:30

I thought you were gonna say living in sin for some reason.

SPEAKER_01 8:33

Well, they've always been living in sin. Where would we be without sin? I know. Talk about lowering the bar.

SPEAKER_03 8:40

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 8:41

If we didn't have sin, what would be the point of anything?

SPEAKER_03 8:45

That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

You know how people who are religious will say, if you don't believe in God, how do you how would you ever be good?

SPEAKER_02 8:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

And I my my turn on that expression is if there were no sin, how could you ever have fun?

SPEAKER_03 9:01

That's true. I agree with that.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

What would be the point of life? Yeah. I'm gonna think about that. I'm gonna think on that. Okay, so in the early 1900s, they started taking these urbanized kids because they were with pollution. Yeah, yeah. And they said, Hey, these kids uh are getting sick all the time, let's do something with them. And so this idea of physical education became a thing in schools. But when kids run around doing whatever they're doing, they get sweaty.

unknown 9:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

And in middle school, they decide at some point that these kids need to shower up.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

Oh, see, we never had showers. We had, you know, changing rooms you'd change into your gym clothes and out of them, but you did not shower. That was not a thing. Yeah, so by then sweaty and stanky.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Well, by then that's that was more and more common, and now that's very common if they make them go to PE at all. But back in the day, you'd send a kid to middle school, you know, right when that whole puberty thing is is kind of on the horizon. That's happening either to you or your friends.

SPEAKER_03 10:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

And either you're happy that it's happening to you, or you're not happy, or you're unhappy that it's not happening to you.

SPEAKER_03 10:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

But whatever your thing is, you're not happy.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

Because it's it's change is happening, and change is scary.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Change is happening, change is scary. So let's get these kids stripping down in public and taking showers.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

I was like a communal shower.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Communal showers, like prison showers.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

That's awful. That's like psychological torture.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

It was a thing. Uh, and it just sounds a little weird now, right?

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Yeah, it does.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Like if like now today saying let's get a bunch of strange kids in a room, having stripped down and shower together, people would be like, Um, I don't think my kid's gonna be doing that.

SPEAKER_03 10:49

Right.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

And but it used to be pretty normal, it was expected. No one even there was never never a discussion about it.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

Like couldn't opt out, it was just like, no, get get your butt in the shower.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

It does sound weird though, right? Yeah, it does sound weird. And I will say for me, it was a little traumatic because I went to Catholic school through eighth grade.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

Well, that's traumatic on its own.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

It was its own trauma, but we we didn't have to take off our clothes at any time.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

Well, it would have been a sin if you did.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Yeah. Everybody wore all their clothes all the time. Some people, like the nuns, wore extra stuff. Like they didn't even need.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

So so we didn't take off our clothes. When it was time for to go outside, and we had lots of recess and playtime, which was great. We changed our school shoes because we weren't wore a uniform, but we changed our school shoes into tennis shoes.

SPEAKER_03 11:38

Oh, okay. That's it. That's all.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

So the most you're ever revealing is your socks.

SPEAKER_03 11:42

Well, that's scandalous, Ross.

SPEAKER_01 11:44

Well, so my parents, my mom in particular, decided that I could no longer go to Catholic school because I had such problems with authority. Uh-huh. So she was gonna send me to an urban public school, which back in those days, middle school was seven, eight, and nine. And I know it's not like that in a school.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

I mine was six, seven, eight.

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 12:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

That's how it is, I think, commonly now. But back then in California, it was seven, eight, nine.

SPEAKER_03 12:13

And then you switched to high school for a long time. And then that's ten, eleven, twelve. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

So I show up at this public school for the first time in ninth grade. I'm the one of the I'm one of the seniors, but I don't know anybody or anything about this world. It's like going to another planet for a while.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

And there's immediately clear signals given to me that this was not going to be like anything I ever saw or knew. Because on the first day of school, I'm just walking somewhere, and some kid comes up behind me and sticks what feels sharp into my back and saying, Hey. And I'm like, Yeah, I got a knife in your back. What? Okay. And he says, Do you believe me? And I'm like, Yeah, I kinda do. And he says, Good. And he walks away. So it's like first day I'm like, okay, this never happened.

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Uh that never happened to me at public school.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

Just never happened. Or like you're trying. So the other thing that was new and traumatic was having your own locker.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

Oh, yeah, that's a thing. Mine was always really messy.

SPEAKER_01 13:23

So the idea that, okay, I've got to be able to open this thing, put stuff in it, lock it. I never had a locker. So the first time I'm like figuring out fiddling with it, I think.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

Which way do I twist it? When?

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Yeah, this way, that way. You know, I'm trying to do it like a safe cracker. I finally get it open. All of a sudden, as it's opening, the j biggest foot in the world wearing the largest boot in the world slams it shut.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 13:46

And I turn around, and there was a kid who looked like he was 30.

SPEAKER_03 13:53

Jesus. It sounds like you're in like an after school special.

SPEAKER_01 13:57

It was something else, man. There were a lot of characters in this place. And so it's like one of those kids is like, How old are you?

SPEAKER_03 14:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:05

You can't be 14.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

You're not supposed to be here.

SPEAKER_01 14:08

You can't be 40. There's no way. You have a full beard. You know, you've got face tattoos. How can it be? And always the big guy like that. Yeah. Always the big, big guy. Always had the little teeny guy attached to him.

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That guy. That little henchman guy. Gaston and uh LaFou. The LaFuid that gets took to the Gaston.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

The kid who would not survive five minutes.

SPEAKER_03 14:36

On their own.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

On their own is somehow they're in this weird symbiotic relationship. They are attached at the hip. Yes. That's funny. What are you gonna do, kid? It's like, well, if it was just you, maybe, but I'm not doing anything because this man has his foot is bigger than my torso. So I'm just and it's like, are you a parent? Are you a dad? What do you go here? So anyway, this place. So then there you are in this place. And terrifying new world. PE required every day.

SPEAKER_03 15:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

And you gotta strip down.

SPEAKER_03 15:09

Jeez.

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Get naked. Jeez. And you're coming off a Catholic school, you poor kid. It was it was a little it was a little it was uh stimulating. I will say that. The shower slash locker room, the communal situation. It was this huge cavernous like airplane hanger. Like it was not nothing was cool about it. No. You had to get a towel every day from this cranky towel guy in a towel cage.

SPEAKER_03 15:38

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

You go up to the cage and it's like I need a towel, and he'd give you one of those like little mini towels that feel like sandpaper.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

Ugh.

SPEAKER_01 15:47

You know, and that's your towel.

SPEAKER_03 15:48

Oh, I hate this.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

And then you had to go and get in the shower, and a lot of guys would just run through. Like they wouldn't even stay in there. And there'd always be like one guy is really into it. Like he's like totally soaping up and singing and chatting. It's like, why do you like this? Like, why are you okay? A lot of kids got bullied in those situations.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

Well, we don't have in our society definitely today, and I mean, I think even at that time, casual nudity is not a thing, right? And I'm not I'm not putting a value judgment on that. I mean, honestly, probably frankly, it should be more of a thing. We shouldn't be so ashamed of our bodies, but it's not a part of our society. So to introduce it to a bunch of prepubescent and newly pubescent kids, this thing that is, you know, nudity is only for these these private spaces, and there's something naughty and adult about it, and like we're just gonna shove you all together. Like, that is not a good idea.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Well, and the thing is, there's not a lot of supervision. So Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Well, it'd be weird if there was.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

So kids are gonna feel awkward, there's gonna be bullying, there's gonna be problems. And then you just see stuff you didn't expect to see. Like, whoa, is that what a penis is supposed to look like? I did not know that.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

Yeah. That's also how I felt the first time I saw a penis.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

Yeah. They're weird.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

They're stunning, weird, but not in a good way.

SPEAKER_03 17:05

Like fleshy alien lighthouses. What is that thing doing there?

SPEAKER_01 17:08

The whole thing is seems wrong. Yeah. It seems like evolution should have done more by now.

SPEAKER_03 17:14

This is just incorrect.

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Can we put a spinner on it or something?

SPEAKER_03 17:18

And then when it's yeah, when it's just dangling there, you're like, why is this doing this?

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Which is so one of the things that was traumatic was so not only, so now you're I'm in this weird environment. Right. I have to strip down, get naked in front of all these other people. Some of them are man children.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

They're like dads in there, and it's like, what? Even though they're theoretically kids, but they've obviously been roiding out or something. I don't know what they're on. Yeah. Then you were required back then to wear a jock strap to protect your junk.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

Now, I don't I've never really understood the jock strap.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

But I did not like I did not like them because, first of all, it's this like you it has no backside.

SPEAKER_03 18:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

So it's you're got like assless chaps up at you. Yes, you've got assless chaps. You've never worn anything like this in your life at that point. I had never, ever. And I played sports and I did all the things, but we were never required to wear assless chaps. Like, I don't want my butt loose in my pants.

SPEAKER_03 18:20

Uh-huh. Butt loose and fancy free.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Yeah, there was no fancy free. Yeah. It just felt bad to have your butt on the leaf.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

There's just a lot of new things happening to you.

SPEAKER_01 18:31

And yeah, and how do you put it on and the straps are in the wrong place and you know, stuff's getting twisted.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

I am very glad that I went through puberty after menstrual belts were a thing where you had to have belts to hold up pads. I remember my mom telling me about this and me being like, I just don't understand. I would have had such a panic attack.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

Like a big buckle?

SPEAKER_03 18:50

Yeah, you had to like clip on the it's a whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

Yeah, that sounds good.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

I'm so glad that's not a thing anymore.

SPEAKER_01 18:56

That sounds wrong.

SPEAKER_03 18:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Yeah, so I didn't understand the jock trap, and apparently there are certain sports where the jock is designed so that you can put a uh cup in it.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

Right. Now that makes sense. That makes more sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:08

What I mean, if you're a kid, most kids back then were wearing jockey shorts. They were about as good as much support out of that.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Why do we have to put on the assless chaps to play you know got humiliation, of course. It was more humiliation. Right. Oh, did you know that the jock was named for in the old days when they rode those bicycles, they were called bicyclose old-fashioned bicycles. The people that rode them when they were like a new phenomenon, right? They were called bicycle jockeys.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

Oh, that makes sense because you have like a horse jockey and it's like it's you're riding it the same, you know, ish way you'd ride a horse. And horses don't have pedals, but you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

They weren't comfortable.

SPEAKER_03 19:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

So for guys, so they wore special gotcha. I don't again, I don't know why. I don't know what kind of underwear they wore back then.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

But special bicycle underwear.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

Because what were what was the underwear back then? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

I don't know what did they even let women ride bicycles back then? I feel like I've seen that.

SPEAKER_01 20:08

I think they had to ride them. I don't think they did.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

You have to ride a bicycle side saddle.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

You have to ride a side saddle.

SPEAKER_03 20:14

They had a lot of confusing ideas about what women's bodies could and couldn't do. Did you know that they didn't want to let women ride on trains when trains were invented? Because they thought that if a woman's body went that fast, their uterus would just fly out of their body.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

Oh, but that's not true?

SPEAKER_03 20:29

No.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

Oh. No. I'm glad you mentioned that.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

It's not. I mean, it's it's also assuming that all women have uteruses and that all people with uteruses are women, but that's neither true.

SPEAKER_01 20:36

And that uteruses can fly.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

Exactly. Yes. Or that like uh like the ancient Greeks thought that they could just sort of roam around your body, and that was uh that's where hysteria comes from. You were hysterical because your your uterus was in a spot it wasn't supposed to be in, and we needed to soothe it and get it back to where it was supposed to be.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

There have been days where I felt like my uterus was roaming around my body. Yep, yep. And why can't it?

SPEAKER_03 20:59

And why not?

SPEAKER_01 21:00

Why shouldn't there be? So uh as a result of this kind of horror show that for years and years was considered normal, where we're gonna turn all these middle school kids loose naked and make them shower in an unsupervised space.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:13

Where bullying and just shaming and body shaming and all the stuff would happen.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

It's hard to have supervision in there because obviously you don't want an adult around a bunch of naked kids. But then also if there's not, I mean, I can't even imagine the kinds of horrible like kids can be awful.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Oh no, it's uh it's it was a clown show. But a lot of kids today are like, I'm not doing that. Yeah, I'm not going into a space and taking my clothes off. So one I got one quote as an article I was reading. This kid says, I wouldn't do it, says sixteen year old Adrian, a junior at this high school. It's way too weird. I don't want to see another guy like that. Go for it. Go for it.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

It's this the the the no homo attitude and the like fear of it's for men in particular the fear that if you are near another guy in certain situations it will somehow magically make you gay and also that that's lesser and that also that right it's this horrible construct.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

You're right, but there's another thing that I think this guy's saying that I can tell you what it is. It's not homophobia. Okay. Always. It can be.

SPEAKER_03 22:25

It certainly can be. There's certainly an aspect.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

There's another thing where some guys just don't want to see somebody else's junk. It's not we don't we don't want it.

SPEAKER_03 22:39

I understand that that's not necessarily coming from a place of homophobia in terms of hatred, but do you not think that that's at its roots also a type of homophobia?

SPEAKER_01 22:51

I I don't think so because of so it's like to me, there's a little space for this that's not homophobic.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

Okay, I'm curious about this.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

If I were to be at some place that has a locker room, old guys walk around completely naked and they're all on in your business, they're everywhere, they're walking around, they're really close to you, and it's like, look at me, I'm naked, and it's great. And I just don't want it. But see, like I don't want that around me.

SPEAKER_03 23:19

I don't either, but I don't want that from anybody, regardless of what their genitalia looks like, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:24

I would be yes, but but there's something we talked about this earlier. I guess it's the Audi.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

I mean it's an Audi as opposed to an innie, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:33

So it's more immediately that's fair.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

Okay, I okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

They're not ever really welcome.

SPEAKER_03 23:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

It's they're not, it's it's like having a boil and being proud of it. It's hard to be proud of that boil.

SPEAKER_03 23:47

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

Um it's not a problem if you have it. I'm not anti-boil, right?

SPEAKER_03 23:51

You know, but I'm an outdies and innies, right?

SPEAKER_01 23:53

I don't want to see it. Yeah, yeah, there's a little space for that. And I think that's what I relate to that part of it. It's like I would prefer not to be in that.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

I relate to just not wanting to be seen particularly at that at that age. I get I get that. I mean, we would have I had to change for gym, right? We didn't have the shower situation, but I was definitely like, oh, behind the locker door, hide. And I got more comfortable as I got older because I was doing theater, right? And you're making costume quick changes and stuff. Yes. I actually think it's very powerful to become comfortable enough in your body to to decouple it from sexuality and to decouple it from shame and just say, Hey, this is my body that I'm moving in the world with. But I don't think you should be forced through that sort of process and growth without any support or help.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

Yeah, yeah. The only support you're getting is from this jock strap.

SPEAKER_03 24:44

Which is, I imagine, not supported. It doesn't do anything, and your butt is totally loose. Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

In the theater, in the theater environment, yeah, you often have to strip down and you have seconds to do it.

SPEAKER_03 24:55

Yeah. And it seems like so desexualized because everyone is just trying to get a job done, right? It's like, oh my god, I gotta get this dress off and pull on another one, and the costumer is like, I gotta get her in that dress, or it's not, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

But there's something about that um being in that milieu, and and the parts that I always seem to get are ones where you're make because I'm a character player, so I'm always having to make like six changes. I've been in one show ridiculous outfits, I'm sure. I was in one show where I played a man, and then I also played for you.

unknown 25:27

Boom.

SPEAKER_03 25:28

Just kidding, just kidding.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

I I'll play anything. Uh I played a man and then I also played two or three different women. But the fun thing is, no, so during this one number, I was a man in the same song, I was a man and two different women.

unknown 25:44

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 25:45

So the changes were insane.

SPEAKER_03 25:46

I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

So, so but but so you have to be comfortable with that. But what I was gonna say is when you're in that milieu and that is the norm, yeah, there's it's easier to be comfortable.

SPEAKER_03 25:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Because everybody's doing it and everybody knows that it's not a show.

SPEAKER_03 26:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

It's part of the job.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:05

And so there's an acceptance and a support, and it just feels well.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Like I said, there's not a place a lot of places in society today where that is the case. And middle school is definitely not one of them.

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Definitely not one of them. But so these kids are doing rigorous sports and they're doing things, and but they don't shower till they get home, if they do.

SPEAKER_03 26:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

This one kid said uh this guy, a kid's name was Marvin. Hey Marvin.

SPEAKER_03 26:29

That's oh, I guess old comes around again, right? Old made news. Marvin. Marvin. Marvin God.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Last semester, Marvin skipped showers after his twice-a-day gym classes. Twice a day? That's hell. Twice a day. Why? Preferring instead to freshen up with a washcloth and a dousing of Bod Man body spray.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

I mean, everything smells like axe when you're in middle and high school. Everything smells like a big smells like axe, bod man.

SPEAKER_01 26:56

I didn't know what this was, so I looked it up. It's a fragrance that opens with citrus notes of bergamo and mandarin orange, followed by a fresh, natural, outdoorsy sensation that includes crisp green sage and masculine notes of geranium and lavender.

SPEAKER_03 27:13

I mean, they're selling it. It sounds nice. I'd I'd smell that candle.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

I kind of am into lavender.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

I do like lavender.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

So I have uh lavender diffusers in my apartment.

SPEAKER_03 27:23

I like lavender for candles and things, but I don't like it for like perfumes or deodorant. I have a lilac and white tea scented deodorant. I'm obsessed with it. It's so good.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

Do you ever find yourself just licking it like a lollipop?

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Well, I don't lick it, but I will just some you know, it's also my uh my shower gel. So sometimes I'll just be like, oh, I'm gonna smell this for a minute. This is nice.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

So you can say I like the stink of lavender or I like to stink myself up with lavender.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

Oh, that's good. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Some athletic coaches and health advocates have expressed concerns about kids not showering. I mean after playing sports because especially when they've had skin-to-skin contact.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

Yeah. You pass along bugs and things and you're sweaty.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

One expert is saying there's a risk of spreading MRSA.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

That can be deadly.

SPEAKER_02 28:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

And but you have the kids saying, uh-uh, I'm not showering, I'll just change my shirt and wear lots of perfume.

SPEAKER_03 28:21

It's tricky.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Yeah. But kids, I mean, today kids are just not doing it. They're not doing it. They don't want to do it for all the reasons.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Yeah. Like I mean, like I said, I never I never showered at high school gym classes. That wasn't part of our we had our gym class, and then you would change, but you didn't you didn't shower.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

It's it's one of those things like smoking on an airplane. Like people today say there's no way. Yeah. Like no.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

But at there was a time when everybody did.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

It was just accepted, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

And and so to me, that's how this middle school showers.

SPEAKER_03 28:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Like high school, I'm not as I'm o more okay with, but the middle school. Even in high school we didn't. We didn't have that. Well, a lot of people aren't in high school aren't doing either, just you putting on that bodman body spray. Bodman. Stink stink themselves up with a little yeah, it's it's a tongue twister. But they're they're putting on their perfume and getting, you know, and not showering and maybe just getting used to that.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

And maybe, you know, that's I they're pretty sure that at one point I had Mursa in my bursa, which is the worst Dr. Seuss rhyme. I had a a knee problem. I had bursitis in my knee. So it's all swollen and bad.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

If you have MRSA in your bursa, can you get in front in the Disneyland?

SPEAKER_03 29:31

Uh that may be.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

That could be it's a thing that I think when you present it to parents today, especially those that hadn't hadn't been subjected to the horrors of it. It's just like I'm not making my kid do this. Right, right. They can do they don't have to do this. And the idea of kids being naked together with no supervision, one guy in a towel cage who was grumpy, he wasn't coming out of that cage. He didn't you don't know what happened.

SPEAKER_03 29:55

He was not coming out of his cage, he was not doing just fine.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

It's not good for kids.

SPEAKER_03 30:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

So my mom says, You're going to the school, good luck.

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

And you had to pick your own classes. So I did.

SPEAKER_02 30:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

And my thinking was, Well, I'm gonna be in this new school, I'll pick some easy classes. Right. So I picked the remedial classes, not notes.

SPEAKER_03 30:20

Uh not understanding quite what that was. What I was doing.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

And guess who's in all those remedial classes? The bullies, the worst people in the school.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

Because our society reinscribes that if you're not learning in this particular way that you're stupid, and then naturally they get angry about that, and then because they're kids, they don't know how to express that, so they take it out on other people.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

What was that movie, The Blackboard Jungle?

SPEAKER_03 30:42

I don't know that one. Yeah, Blackboard Jungle, Glenn Ford, and Sidney Poitiers. Um I'm looking to see if it's Sidney Poitiers. Yes, Sidney Poitiers.

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Okay, so it was like Blackboard Jungle. That was a long way to go for that. Yeah, we're gonna have miles for the bit. So I had no friends, and I'm in Blackboard Jungle.

SPEAKER_03 31:02

Oh God. I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

And there's no one as cool as Sidney Poitiers in there.

SPEAKER_03 31:10

I mean, okay, that's that's true. Sidney Poitiers is immensely cool.

SPEAKER_01 31:12

So he was really cool, and he was supposedly a high school kid, but he looked like he was a young man.

SPEAKER_03 31:18

Yeah. They they love to cast older folks as as high school kids and pretend that that's what high school kids look like, and it does damage to the psyche because you don't look like that.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

So I was always immersed in that culture. However, that helped me it was like a crash course on how to get along with people who want to kill you.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

And I found this guy, and this I there was nothing strategic about this, it just worked out strategically.

SPEAKER_02 31:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

This guy named George.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:50

Another guy who well he wasn't the biggest guy, but he was a fighter.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

He came from a rough background.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

And the kids would fight every day after school.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 32:03

They would go into a little fight club situation.

SPEAKER_03 32:06

I don't know if this kind of thing just didn't happen at my school or if I was just not cool enough to know about it. Because like I always assumed that in uh in high school people didn't really drink alcohol. Like that was just made up in TV shows and movies, and then I got to college and found out that other other people had been drinking and also found out from other people I went to high school with, like, no, yeah, Madeline, those parties totally existed. You just were never invited. And I was like, oh, that's real.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

So I don't maybe there were fight clubs I didn't know about, but so they had fight club and George was the king of fight club.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

And George and I struck up a nice little friendship.

SPEAKER_03 32:39

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

And I didn't hang around him like the little henchman kid. Yeah. Like, I wasn't that kid, but just the fact that people knew that George was my friend and George was the king of Fight Club, yeah, they didn't really want to mess with me. That's good. George, George. There's always a chance that George would come in and knock them out.

SPEAKER_03 32:59

Just crush them.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Yes. So, um, so but I also just learned a lot about dealing with people who weren't like me.

SPEAKER_03 33:05

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

And who were very different, had very different backgrounds.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

That's what you should learn in school, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:11

Yes, but it was not the best way to learn it. It was more of a survival mode.

SPEAKER_03 33:15

Yeah, that's not good.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Yeah, it's it's it was definitely a survival situation, but it did, I did it did fast forward it, you know, that whole process for me. And it got me a lot better at sort of understanding people and being able to relate to people. So it had all those positive things, but it was still kind of a traumatic thing. And it set me back a couple of years before I kind of got on my footing. Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:39

Um I have a gym class question for you. Go. If I may. Did you have to do dance in PE?

SPEAKER_01 33:44

No.

SPEAKER_03 33:44

We had to do line dancing. That sounds kind of fun. It was kind of fun, but it was weird that it was like a thing. The cool part was that you got to for like the the final of that unit, you got to pick what song you wanted to line dance to. Nice. So that was fun.

SPEAKER_01 33:57

And which one did you pick?

SPEAKER_03 33:58

Uh, it was this will very much date exactly when I was in high school, but it was clocks by cold play.

SPEAKER_01 34:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 34:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:04

So what they have found, interestingly, based on what you just said, they have found that the old PE programs where people would be forced to do things like run a mile in under seven.

SPEAKER_03 34:16

Yeah, we had to do the president's or climb this rope or do a lot of people. We did not have to do the rope. Thank God. I would have died.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

They found that those things actually were not helping kids get fitter. And in fact, they were encouraging people to skip PE, engage in truancy, the bullying. There were all these negative things that studies were showing is like all this focus isn't working.

SPEAKER_03 34:36

No, we did. We didn't have to do the rope, but as part of the presidential fitness test, you were supposed to try to do a pull-up, and I cannot do even one pull-up. So every time it came around, it was just Madeline, just hang from this bar for 30 seconds and pretend like you're trying to do something, and then we'll move on.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Madeline, I am going to help you do a pull-up. Oh, Ross, I have a pull-up bar in my apartment.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:58

And one day you are going to come over and I am going to show you how you can do a pull-up.

SPEAKER_03 35:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

And you are going to be able to say, I did a pull-up.

SPEAKER_03 35:08

I did a pull-up.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

Anyway, so what they found is that if they get rid of all those old-fashioned notions of what gym class is, or even like the team sports things where like a lot of kids are left out or humiliated because they're not chosen or they're marginalized in other ways, they if they make it fun and just get kids moving. Moving, yeah, like the line dancing, there's so many things.

SPEAKER_03 35:31

We did jump rope for America when I was in elementary school. That was super fun.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Jump rope for America.

SPEAKER_03 35:36

Jump rope for America.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

Do it for America. America needs you. Jump and rope. Double Dutch yourself to glory.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 35:46

In your assless chat. Um, so anyway, doing more fun kinds of activities. Got get kids moving, capture the flag, or whatever it is. Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

Oh, I loved Capture the Flag Day, or like even dodgeball was fun because they wouldn't do the like, you know, team captains pick teams bullying thing. They'd just randomly assign you. And then it was fun to play dodgeball.

SPEAKER_01 36:07

How about these games? Ooh, I'm ready. I made up some games for kids.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

Yes, please.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

One game.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

A lot of activity. It's called Escape from School.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:17

So every kid gets one hour to escape.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

It's like an escape room, but it's in your school. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

And if you make it out, you get to stay out. You get to stay out, and you're not in trouble.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 36:27

So you can hop fences, you can make tunnels, like in the great escape movie. Uh the teachers have like tasers.

SPEAKER_03 36:33

I mean, yeah, that sounds right.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

So they can, you know. They're light, they're light shock. Light light shocking. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:40

Child tasing.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

But it gets the teachers exercising too instead of smoking it up in the break room.

SPEAKER_03 36:45

Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Okay, that's one game.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

That's option one.

SPEAKER_01 36:48

How about this one?

SPEAKER_03 36:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Party on the roof.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Ooh.

SPEAKER_01 36:51

So there's a party on the roof with everything. Okay. You just gotta get up there somehow. There's no ladders. Figure out a way.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Drain pipe it.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:59

Stand on kids' shoulders. You'll w burn a lot of calories getting on the roof, but you'll want to because it's a party. Uh flooded hallways. Okay. The game.

SPEAKER_02 37:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:11

Run for your lives kind of scenario. Oh no. Swimming. There's swimming. Swimming is like Titanic swimming. Okay. Like when uh DiCaprio and uh Winslet.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

Winslet are like Yeah, swimming their way out of the Impossibly.

SPEAKER_01 37:24

Impossibly.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

Impossibly in freezing water. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

Impossible I just rewatched Titanic.

SPEAKER_03 37:30

I've never seen it all the way through, and my sister always gets so mad at me, fairly so, because it's her favorite movie, but we never seem to find the right time to sit down and watch it.

SPEAKER_01 37:38

Okay, here's what's gonna happen. You're gonna come over. Okay. You're gonna do one pull up. And then we're gonna watch the end of Titanic.

SPEAKER_03 37:45

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:46

How about this game? Last last idea.

SPEAKER_03 37:48

I love it. I'm ready.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

I think kids would like bury your desk.

unknown 37:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

You get a prize for doing it the fastest. So you drag your desk out into a field, you dig a hole, you put the desk in, you cover it, fastest one wins the prize.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

That's gonna be you're gonna burn. And you're gonna get super in shape. Yeah. And I what kid wouldn't want to do that? Right. You'd man, escape from school? I would have loved that game.

SPEAKER_03 38:17

Man, did you ever read the book or watch the movie holes?

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Because I did both.

SPEAKER_03 38:23

Put a kid in a desert, make him dig a hole in his character.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

That is so good. That's such a better environment for kids. And then they'll get really super tired and sweaty. Right. And then they just hit themselves up with the bod man.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

Okay, here's what I think. I think that if they're gonna make us have a gym class period, there should be a nap class period. If they're gonna make me exert myself, I should get a sleep break. Because they do also genuinely talk about health-wise, how a lot of teens are in sleep debt because teens need more sleep than their schedules allow.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

So you're talking about like the preschool nap scenario where you lay down on your mat.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Give me a mat. Give me a freaking mat. I want to take a nap.

SPEAKER_01 39:01

Everything. I went to a very large high school. There were 3,500 kids. So there was every single thing.

SPEAKER_03 39:07

Okay, well, that's part of it. My graduating class was 167 people.

SPEAKER_01 39:10

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:11

So that's a problem.

SPEAKER_03 39:12

That's part of it.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

That's a problem.

SPEAKER_03 39:13

It was public school, but it was small.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

So here's what we're gonna do.

SPEAKER_03 39:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

You're gonna come over.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:18

I'm gonna teach you to do one pull-up.

SPEAKER_03 39:20

One pull-up.

SPEAKER_01 39:21

You are going to watch the end of Titanic. Okay. And we are going to invite 166 people.

SPEAKER_03 39:27

Ooh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

In over so that you can be around more people and see that there is a lot of stuff going on in this world.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Yeah. That I just don't know about.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

You just made up for the movies.

SPEAKER_03 39:40

You've led a charm life. Uh-huh. I have. It's true.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Thank you, Madeline, for talking about gym class with me.

SPEAKER_03 39:45

Thank you, Ross.

SPEAKER_01 39:46

I think we've helped a lot of people somehow.

SPEAKER_03 39:49

Somehow.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

I don't know how.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

Work through their trauma.

SPEAKER_01 39:52

Thanks everyone for joining us. Please share our show. Please. I don't get tired of asking you because that's the only thing I'm asking you to do. But if you want to help us more, there's we're on Patreon. You can reach out to us, you can talk to us. We love hearing from you, and we love your encouragement. Those of you that write and say positive things, it really does help. It really helps us because then we know there's people out there. I mean, we see the numbers, but you know. We need the we're theater people.

SPEAKER_03 40:21

We want to know we got an audience.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Yeah, it's like doing a rehearsal forever. It's like, what does an audience think?

SPEAKER_03 40:27

Yeah, it's the missing theme partner.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

And podcasting is a lonely sport. It's not a sport, it's a game. So thank you so much, everyone. And we hope you'll tune in to another episode because whether you are escaping from school or just someone trying to figure out how to get on those assless chaps, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans. Goodbye, everybody.

SPEAKER_03 40:54

Goodbye.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

What? Yes. This is wild.