Smells Like Humans
Top 5% global podcast! Smells Like Humans is a seasonal podcast dedicated to bringing a humorous perspective to quirky and curious aspects of human behavior. Each show, the SLH crew will focus on a different topic, and share personal stories and observations in a way that sounds like you’re hanging out with your funny friends. The stories and commentary are presented with humor and warmth, since let’s face it: we all smell like humans. (Contact us: contactSLH19581980@gmail.com)
Smells Like Humans
YOU MIGHT BE A BAD TIPPER AND NOT EVEN KNOW IT
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Azalea and Madeline join Ross to discuss the often confusing expectations around tipping. Tangents include: Door Dash delivery people; convenience store tip line; customer hate; cab culture; coffee shop tip jar; $2,000 oyster; Australians as tippers; hotel tipping.
Contact us: contactSLH19581980@gmail.com
It was Friday night last night. We were tired. We just wanted a goddamn Philly cheesesteak.
SPEAKER_07Like, I just need a meatball right now, and I don't want to make it. No. I want someone to drop off a sack of meatballs.
SPEAKER_06Yes!
SPEAKER_07Damn.
SPEAKER_04A stack of meat on my porch.
SPEAKER_02Whoa!
SPEAKER_07Welcome to another episode of Smells Like Humans. This is the podcast where we explore the curious things that people do, the very human things that grab our attention and cause us to wonder what and why. I'm Ross, your host. I have two amazing humans on the show today. First, a person who's so wicked smart, everyone suspects she was overserved at the brain bar. It's Madeline.
SPEAKER_06Hello, thank you.
SPEAKER_07And another stellar friend who is always amazing, always articulate, but never too angelic. It's Azalea. Welcome.
SPEAKER_03Hello.
SPEAKER_07It's great to have both of you and welcome everyone. We are so glad you stopped by to listen to us today. Stop by like this is a storefront now.
SPEAKER_06Thank you for thank you for coming in. Thank you for being here. Thanks for coming in.
SPEAKER_07I heard the bell ring and I came around from the back where I was having a baloney sandwich.
SPEAKER_06And and restocking microphones. No, that's that's Derek's job. Oh, sorry, yeah. I don't want to steal that.
SPEAKER_07At any rate, we are glad you're here. We're glad you're part of the family. And I want to get started right now. We know that a lot of humans work hard for the money.
SPEAKER_03They work hard for the money.
SPEAKER_07Yes, you know it.
SPEAKER_03I know it. This is why you have Madeline on. It's because you don't have to play music cues. She will just sing them.
SPEAKER_07That's right. She knows all the music cues. And she also will also uh sing without cues.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'll invent some.
SPEAKER_07And that can be a problem. So people work hard and they depend on tips to make their bills. Yes. But have you noticed that tipping norms seem to be less and less clear these days? Things seem to be a little out of whack. The rules about who gets tipped and how much seemed to be in flux. And as usual, I had some thoughts. I want to bounce off of you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Let's first start with establishing our tipping bona fides.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Have you ever, either one of you, worked for a tip?
SPEAKER_06Absolutely. I have absolutely worked service jobs that I depended on getting tips.
SPEAKER_07Okay. So Azalea, where did you work for tip?
SPEAKER_03I have had multiple food service jobs.
SPEAKER_07Um so like serving jobs?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think uh like I serve I was a server at a um a pub for a while.
SPEAKER_07Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_03And then I also, one of my first jobs was working concessions at a big old theater in Oregon.
SPEAKER_07Madeline, what kind of job were you doing?
SPEAKER_03Uh bowling alleys.
SPEAKER_07Um You got tipped at the bowling alley?
SPEAKER_06Uh sometimes you would get tipped just you would definitely get tipped for birthday parties, sometimes for just servicing lanes and shoes. But I did also have a specific job at one of the bigger bowling alleys I worked at. Uh you worked at numerous bowling alleys.
SPEAKER_07Your resume is crammed with bowling alleys.
SPEAKER_06No, it's it's like library, bookstore, bowling alleys. Love it.
SPEAKER_07What kind of tips are you getting for shoes at a bowling alley?
SPEAKER_06I mean, there's just a tip jar out and people will put it in, put it in and then you divvy it up at the end of the shift. Right.
SPEAKER_07Right. I think uh that's good. That's good that you both have worked for tips before because you know what it's about. Yep. You know what it's like. So I work for tips. You may or may not know that at one point in my life I drove a Greyhound style tour bus throughout Alaska.
SPEAKER_03What? In Alaska?
SPEAKER_07Alaska and the Yukon territory.
SPEAKER_03Oh wow.
SPEAKER_07I would take about 50, usually older people on the ride of their life through some of the most desolate country.
SPEAKER_06Did you get to narrate?
SPEAKER_07Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_06That's why they hire you.
SPEAKER_07You would tell stories, you would point out various things, you'd make up facts, and you'd make you know sing, and you know, you would perform and you'd have in a past life you made bank escorting people to and from the Western territories.
SPEAKER_06Absolutely. Like wagon trail lines.
SPEAKER_05Absolutely.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_03I I have to add, now that you say that, Madeline and I were actually talking about this on the way here, that I used to do uh walking tours, and that was another job that I got tipped for.
SPEAKER_07That's very similar to what I was doing, except I was driving. Driving too. But it was the same kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07We were paid a low hourly, I don't remember what it was, but it wasn't much. And it was kind of funny because these people were like they if they purchased this expensive tour package. And I've talked there's an episode where I talk about Alaska and all of this on the uh on that episode. So I won't repeat myself, but they bought these expensive tour packages and they'd come up on a cruise ship and then they'd be loaded onto these buses. Yeah. Drip being driven by pretty young people, and that they'd just be off into the wilderness for three days on an adventure, and really have no idea how much of a thread they were hanging from.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07But that was my job. We'd go over these rough roads, you know, and I would take them places and do all these things for them. And the whole thing is you're hoping there's 50 people on board. If everybody just comes across with a little long green, this is going to be successful for me. We the interesting thing is we were told we would be fired if we did any kind of hustling for tips.
SPEAKER_05Ah.
SPEAKER_07So we couldn't talk about it. We couldn't have a tip jar. Yeah. We could stand as everyone's getting off for the last time at their next destination. We could stand there and kind of help them off.
SPEAKER_02Hope that they're going to be able to do it. Thank you.
SPEAKER_07Good to see you. Yes, flip it in your hand. If anybody gave you a little cash, you had to quickly stick it in your pocket. You had to stick it in your pocket. You couldn't be sitting there like that shit. You pocket that shit. Yeah, you couldn't prime the pump, as we used to say with you know how they do today when you have those big cash bowls at the coffee shop. They're filled with cash.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, oh no, you always put starter cash in. I've also worked like concessions kind of jobs, and you always put in a little bit of something so that people know like it's the mental cue, like, oh right.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_07We couldn't do it.
SPEAKER_03That was the thing about the concessions job that I worked, though, is that we couldn't we put the starter cache in, but we couldn't have the tip jar on the counter. What? So it was like behind the counter. And and the we would put it, we would put it in plastic cups. And we put it so that the starter cache would just like peek over the back of the counter. So you could kind of see it. And then people would ask, they would they would always ask, like, can I tip you? And be like, Yeah, here. And like you'd like to pull the plastic cup onto the counter and then pull it back again.
SPEAKER_07Right, right. So it's interesting.
SPEAKER_06There are jobs where you're not allowed to accept tips. Like I one a bookstore job where it was like, no, this isn't a tip place, like we can't do that. But I've never worked a place where it was like you can accept them, but you have to keep it.
SPEAKER_07Well, I want to I want to get into that exact topic, but first let me tell you one of the things I learned working this tip job is that there seemed to be an inverse relationship between how much I like the group and how fun they were, and how much I got tipped. Yeah. So the more I liked them and the more fun we had, the less money I made.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Because you're their friend.
SPEAKER_07I don't know what I don't know what it is, but I can tell you the most fun I had. I went on many, many trips, but the most fun I had was a busload of Australians. They were so fun, gave me zero tips.
SPEAKER_05They don't have trip culture in Australia, though. No, no. They thought, hey, we paid.
SPEAKER_07Everything's paid for. And I didn't mind because they were so much fun. The worst group of people were a whole busload of people from Oklahoma.
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_07They were a horror show with screaming and calling me intentionally the wrong name and just being horrible the whole time, like saying things like, The bathroom doesn't smell good, dump it in the woods. And I'm like, that's we can't do that. We can't just dump things in the woods. Nobody's gonna know. Just do it. You know, stuff like that for three days. You want to kill them. But they paid me so much money. They gave me one of the biggest paydays I'd ever gotten, just kept laying out the cash and like they were making it up like for heaven or something. You know, Midwest hospitality. So one time.
SPEAKER_04This one time.
SPEAKER_07It's tip time in Alaska. I'm standing, I'm standing there helping people down, and and I'm just saying, I'm just saying out loud, I'm just saying, I hope you had a nice time. It was really great having you on the trip. But my eyes are saying, pay me some money, baby.
SPEAKER_04Feed me, I need to eat. Feed me, feed me.
SPEAKER_07Please give me some fat stacks.
SPEAKER_04Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_07So uh I'm sitting there and this older couple, and they're all old, but some were older, older.
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_07There's a lot of stories there. At any rate, so they get off, and the woman sees me standing there, and she says to her, I guess her husband, she goes, Do you have a little tip for the boy? And so that was already starting off bad.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_07And then grandpa goes into his his uh pocket and starts, you hear the change jingling. And the word that's original, then it's it's like, I don't want if whatever's coming out of your pocket, it doesn't sound like I want it. Yeah, yeah. In any way. And how many times have you said that?
SPEAKER_01A lot.
SPEAKER_07So I'm I'm he pulls out this little handful of change and like tries to put it in my hand, but it like hits the ground and it's all over the place. And it's like reverse pump priming. Yeah, I don't want people to see like six cents on the ground and think, oh, that's all we have to do. Right, right. Look at that. There's 42 cents. That's all we have to do.
SPEAKER_04Look at look at the bus man will get on the ground and scurry for the coins. And I'm so entertaining. Look at the bus boy.
SPEAKER_07Oh, driver boy, go scary for your coinage. So what I what do I do? I start kicking it under the bus. So my god. I don't want to, I don't want to be accused of priming the pump negatively or positively. And I also don't want other people to see that, that that is a benchmark. Like we were saying, well, this isn't a tip job. I think that's less and less clear to me what's a tip job now. And it started with the jars at the coffee shop because I didn't used to have those. You would go in, there was a time in the world where you would go into a place like that and you would not tip anyone. You would order your thing, they give it to you, there's no tip.
SPEAKER_06Well, and also I will say though, I think, I suspect that some of that connects to barista culture and the ways that coffee shops have changed. There's now this almost artisan, like the level of preparation that goes into it. And it was like, great, tip jar time.
SPEAKER_07There's that, and it certainly is an expectation now.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And the place that I go has a clear box of cash. Yeah. And it has a lock on it, but I can get into it. Yep. Funny though, one time I was at a coffee shop, another town. And I always, this is back when you because now you just use a screen.
SPEAKER_06I like that you've already clarified it was in another town. It was another town, it's not here.
SPEAKER_01Semi-illegal mischievous thing you're about to say. You don't need to go looking for my wrap sheet.
SPEAKER_07So they had just an open bowl. And so, you know, I'm putting, and this sounds like a I ripped it off from a Seinfeld episode. It really happened. I put in like a dollar or whatever it was, but it got kind of stuck to my hand. And as the barista turns around, I'm pulling my hand out, and it looks like I'm taking money. He goes, What the hell are you doing? And I came in there all the time. I go, You know me. I'm I am It's stuck to me. He wouldn't believe me.
SPEAKER_06I had a similar thing happen actually at an airport Starbucks. I was not taking anything out, but I put something in, and like the barista just saw my hand moving as I turned, and they were like, Did you just take something from? I was like, No, I tipped you, I swear to God. And like they felt really bad immediately. They were like, Oh no, I I believe you, we've just had people stealing from it recently, which is awful.
SPEAKER_07But here's the thing yeah, I feel like it's less and less clear. So I was up in Seattle for no reason, and I went into a 7-Eleven style establishment. But for no reason, not 7-Eleven, it was not a brand name place, right? It was a kind of place where you can get, you know, it was a 6-12 generic cigarettes. So 612. What'd you say?
SPEAKER_06It was a 612.
SPEAKER_07612. Oh my goodness. The off brand. Help me. So I go and I buy my Doritos and my ringdings. Yeah. And I go up to the guy and I pay with a card. It's one of those places where you have to still sign a paper receipt because they have not joined the 21st century. Correct. They're still back in the 80s, and I was fine. And as I look down, there's my ringdings, Doritos, total tax, tip line.
SPEAKER_06There's a gas station.
SPEAKER_07No, it wasn't a gas station.
SPEAKER_06It was like convenience store, yeah.
SPEAKER_07But it was, you know, not a great rough looking one, but it was. It was a convenience to me. Yeah. Because I needed Doritos and Ringdings, and you just you can't just pull those off a tree.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Well, not where we live.
SPEAKER_07Not where we live. I'm looking at, but I'm looking at that going, I don't feel compelled to leave a tip for this.
SPEAKER_05No.
SPEAKER_07He didn't, I mean, all he was just ringing it up.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07But there it is. And I think a lot of people probably put a little extra on there.
SPEAKER_06At least slip a dollar on, right?
SPEAKER_07Like So let's say somebody comes to your house to do some contractor style work. Okay. Okay, and there's like the boss of the group and the helper people. Do you tip any of those people when they're finished with a job? And they say, okay, it's gonna be $347 for fixing your roof or fixing your tile. And then do you tip the helper people? Do you tip the boss?
SPEAKER_06Okay, this is tricky because I'm not a homeowner, so I'm not as putting into the other thing. But I did, I I sort of I don't know, run run is not the right word, but I'm the I'm the point person for the house that we rent, Azalea and I live together. Yeah. We had somebody out, um, a friend actually, but uh who is a contractor to work on um our deck. I did not tip because it did not occur to me that that would be in the culture, but I was regularly providing like coffee. Do you want a snack? You know, stuff like that.
SPEAKER_07You were a snack fairy.
SPEAKER_06I was the snack fairy.
SPEAKER_07So yeah, so but it's but you could you could see that some people might think that well you should tip them. But if you're tipping the helper people, should you ever tip the boss, you assume, is making the money.
SPEAKER_06Making more?
SPEAKER_02No.
SPEAKER_06I wouldn't. I mean I feel like tipping is for service workers, right? So if it's not for the four minutes for the people who are doing labor.
SPEAKER_07That's my feeling. But again, so at a hotel, let's say you go to a hotel.
SPEAKER_06Yes.
SPEAKER_07So everybody knows if somebody's parking your car or they're carrying your bag, you gotta That's a service, you're at least a couple little bucks. You know they're working for tips.
SPEAKER_06Some buckaroonies.
SPEAKER_07But what about the front desk person?
SPEAKER_06That would never occur to me. That would never occur to me.
SPEAKER_07Me neither, but I think in what about the concierge? If you say, hey, where's a good place to eat?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, it wouldn't occur to me, but I don't think it's a bad thing.
SPEAKER_07I think some people don't tip right now. I think it there is there's a space for people who mean well but just don't understand that certain jobs get tips. Right. Because I as I was suggested, it's kind of changing. Yeah. Like if you can go into a random convenience store and there's a tip line, it's like it's not clear to me. Yeah. And a hotel is the same kind of thing where does everyone who helps you should you give them something?
SPEAKER_06Right. Well, I mean, I was thinking when you brought that up, I was thinking about like uh changeover maid service. Oh yeah. I remember when I was a a kid, I remembered leaving leaving tips for yeah, for the maid service.
SPEAKER_07For maid service, you're supposed to leave something, but a lot of people don't because they don't really it's it's I I'll admit, I I was saying I remember doing my parents doing that when I was a kid.
SPEAKER_06The couple of times that I've stayed in a hotel on my own as an adult, I don't know that it's occurred to me just because that's not something I do very often, right? Now I'm going to, now that I'm thinking about it.
SPEAKER_03But part of As someone who has worked as a housekeeper, yeah. Please tip. Please tip.
SPEAKER_07Part of the problem is that it some people don't like tipping, some people overtip, some people tip perfectly.
SPEAKER_06Okay, overtipping's always fine though. Right. Yeah, better over than under.
SPEAKER_07Yes. But the other problem that I feel like I'm focusing in on today is that sometimes the tipping rules aren't clear.
SPEAKER_06What's the expectation?
SPEAKER_07And you don't think about it, just like you didn't think about. Should I be tipping the concierge? Some people do and some people don't.
SPEAKER_06I think we should live ideally in a society where everyone is paid a universal basic income that is livable and we don't need to be in a tip culture.
SPEAKER_07That is where we need to be, and I agree with that. I've been saying that for years, but in the meantime, what the fuck do we do?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, we're living in the now, and what do we do?
SPEAKER_07So so I just went to a restaurant that automatically adds 20% gratuity, yeah. To the order. Right.
SPEAKER_06To anybody, or is it based on group size? Because a lot of places okay, a lot of places will do, you know, groups of six or more. We're adding this gratuity because we're not taking the chance that we tip it. We put in all this effort to help a large party and and you're not gonna tip us. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07I tried to patronize a local place that included the overhead for paying everyone, including back-of-house people, whatever they're called in the restaurant industry. Yeah, back of house.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07But uh the back-of-house people making sure they got paid a livable wage. They would just charge more for everything, which I happen to like, but it they it failed.
SPEAKER_06That sucks.
SPEAKER_07Because people go in, they go, why are these prices so high?
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Well, you don't got a tip. Well then, but they but that's not what we're used to as a culture, right?
SPEAKER_07Like, you're used to having control. So it's like I want to hold back everyone.
SPEAKER_06I decide if this person can afford their craft mac and cheese tonight. It's in my hands if they live or die.
SPEAKER_07Oh, busboy, look at you groveling for coins. Scamper for the coin, bus boy. Scamper the coins, bus boy. Uh years ago, uh, most restaurants went for servers, went to pooled tips.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Which what do you think about pooled tips? I you know, so it kind of reduces the incentive for the individual to like you know, go the extra mile, but it helps take care of everybody who maybe not be as great at serving or spill coffee in people's laps or just don't hustle or whatever.
SPEAKER_03The thing I think that's interesting about pool tips is whether or not the pool then gets tipped out to like cooks, line cooks, and chefs and stuff. Because the thing about that is that people who actually work in the kitchen tend to make a lot more money per hour than servers do. Right. Like they cause because they can't like when an employer is counting their wage, their hourly wage, they can't include tips in that. So they have to pay them more. Whereas with servers and front-of-house people and bartenders, they can count on tips to to supplement the the hourly wage. Right. And so they can pay them less. They can justify it. So it's a complicated thing.
SPEAKER_06And also that means that a lot of times back of house folks are not getting any tips that are arguably deserved.
SPEAKER_03Right, exactly. So it's a weird It's tricky. The one the one time I worked in a pub, I did have to tip out the the back. Like I shared a percentage of tips with the chef and the line cook and stuff. Which makes sense because they're making the food. Like it's they're doing the majority of the like hands-on work of actually making the thing that I then have to take to the people. And at the same time, I'm the one who gets yelled at if it's wrong. Right.
SPEAKER_06Well, you're also caretaking the experience of the people. You're the messenger.
SPEAKER_07Right, exactly. So don't shoot me, tip me. So, what got me all thinking about tip culture?
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_07I read this article about um people who deliver food to you.
SPEAKER_06Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Deliver food, Uber Eats, and DoorDash.
SPEAKER_06Only only gotten bigger and bigger through pandemic and quarantine and uh et cetera.
SPEAKER_07DoorDash 14 billion, reportedly they still have not turned a profit. Wow. Don't ask me how.
SPEAKER_03I don't believe that. That's what I read.
SPEAKER_07Neither company, but people who work these jobs, that is, they go pick up the food you ordered, they bring it to somewhere, usually your house, and they drop it off. Those people tend to be people who need flexible hours or they're supplementing their other jobs or whatever they're doing. They also tend statistically to be immigrants. So they're people maybe don't know the language as well as they they uh would for other jobs.
SPEAKER_06Right, so it's an easy hands-off job.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, you don't need to you can do it when you want. Problem in this article is that they don't get paid consistently.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07They only get again, I'm just quoting what I read. They only get a few dollars per delivery. I don't know how much, but it's not a ton.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07They have to pay for their overhead, gas and expenses, upkeep, insurance, all the stuff you need to work a car. They hope to get a ten percent tip on every order. That's their hope. Because that's their hope, they're motivated to only do the biggest orders they can. Right. Because they're gonna make the most money.
SPEAKER_06So it's percentage based, yeah.
SPEAKER_07Like to serve. The restaurants that are pricey and in cool neighborhoods because then they think the tips the orders will be more expensive and they'll make more money.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_07They do tend to get bigger tips for the higher orders, but they don't always get that. Right. And they also are less motivated, like when I order something, you know, a slice of pizza for $6.50, that's not exciting for them. Yeah. Because even if I give them 10%, it's not very good. No. It's not. They'd rather wait to get the $300 order from the fancy place. Right. You wait longer if you're a low price customer. You're probably going to wait for it.
SPEAKER_06Low price, low priority.
SPEAKER_07Right. And, and this is the part that started getting me thinking. They start resenting the customers with smaller orders. Because it's like, you know, uh, I don't want to do this. I'm not going to make any money. It's not worth it. I'd rather wait around to get the big order. And I noticed this in cab culture. Yeah. Before Uber, before Lyft, before Rideshare, I would show up in a city and the cabbies who work the airport, they wait in a huge lot. Big and they wait for hours.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And their dream is just like these delivery drivers, their dream is when they finally get up there and the person gets in, they're going on a big ride.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, they're going somewhere.
SPEAKER_07And if you are not going on a big ride, they get angry. Even if it was a 30-mile trip, like from the airport to downtown, they wanted bigger than that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07They wanted like way. And like they wanted like, you know, a hundred, a hundred.
SPEAKER_06What do you mean you don't need me to drive you to the poconos?
SPEAKER_07They would actually complain. They'd be like, oh great, how am I supposed to make money with this? And it's like, man, I just got off, I just got off this airline show. And I'm already beat up by that.
SPEAKER_06I feel for you that you're that, yeah, the industry for your job is a disaster, but I just got to get home.
SPEAKER_07But yeah, so but I think it's that's the thing is that they the a lot of these people uh are are waiting for those big orders, but the complaints are that even when you get the big order, you sometimes don't get the tip that 10% you can't depend on it. So have you ever used any of these food delivery things? We used one last night.
SPEAKER_05We do all the time. Okay.
SPEAKER_07So I do too. I do too, especially during the pandemic. Yeah. Because I hadn't really done it before then.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, same.
SPEAKER_07But then I started, and now it's still occasionally I'll do it when I feel like, you know what? I deserve something.
SPEAKER_06It was Friday night last night. We were tired. We just wanted the goddamn Philly cheesesteak.
SPEAKER_07Like, I just need a meatball right now, and I don't want to make it. No. I want someone to drop off a sack of meatballs.
SPEAKER_06That is.
SPEAKER_07Damn.
SPEAKER_01That is a stack of meat on my porch.
SPEAKER_07Whoa. Why couldn't we just live with a button? I was playing the rim and you went and dunked the ball. Something of oh wrecked the ball.
SPEAKER_01Oh man, Ross.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, that wasn't gonna do it.
SPEAKER_07I didn't do it on purpose.
SPEAKER_03I just put him in a sack. You're the one who dunked him.
SPEAKER_07You I dunked him, you put him in a sack?
SPEAKER_03I put him in a sack, you're the one who dunked him. You dunked him.
SPEAKER_07Okay. You dunked him. I stand dunked. Okay. So yeah, mommy. So um teacher says every time a bell rings, a ball sack lands on your porch.
SPEAKER_02Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_07Something.
SPEAKER_03I like the image of a little winged ball sack landing on your porch.
SPEAKER_07There's a song for you.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Go.
SPEAKER_06Winged ball sack. Fluttering by your porch.
SPEAKER_07Now it's a fluttering ball sack. It's getting worse.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07If they get like 20% on a $50 order, that's $10. They're excited about that. And they put that math if they get a $2,500 super order, which happens. Like for a party.
SPEAKER_02Why would you just do that?
SPEAKER_07They expect to get 20% of that. They think the the proportion should stay the same. So the first thing that I thought of is whole whole wait a tick. I mean, I'm all for everybody making their money, but the first part, the first station I stopped at was if I compare like Azalea serving food or you um being a bowling ball jockey.
SPEAKER_06Busking bowling balls.
SPEAKER_07I I bussing bowling balls.
SPEAKER_06Busking balls.
SPEAKER_07Not busting, but yeah, yeah. Well you could busk them. I don't care what you do. If I see you with a tray of bowling balls, you done, hon. I'll take that. That's to me. You've got a big table. You got to get everybody's order right. Yes, someone's cooking the food, but you got to take the heat for it. If anything is wrong, you're gonna hear about it, you're gonna get blamed, and it's gonna hurt you because they're gonna start lowering the tip. It's like, oh, this server's no good because and stuff. I have had this happen. Oh, yeah, to me. So that is a lot of work. And if it goes well and that big order, that big table tips you well, you've freaking earned it, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Now, if I'm a driver and I get a $10 order for Ross, the cheapskate, or I get a $2,000 order for the fat cat party.
SPEAKER_06Which why didn't they just cater something so that it was expected in advance? The amount of last-minute preparation for ordering something like that. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_07Always good to ask questions. But my point is, my point is if I'm the driver driving a $10 order or a $2,000 order, there's no difference in my effort.
SPEAKER_05Right. Right.
SPEAKER_07I mean, we can really, we can, you know, make fine points about that. But really, I'm going to the restaurant, I'm picking up a sack of food, I put it in the car, I drive to the location, I just drop it all off. I don't do anything. I don't unpack it, I don't serve it, I don't plate it, I don't do anything.
SPEAKER_06Well, minor sidebar that's also I mean, I would just minorist sidebar. That's also you said that the expectation is 10%, where I feel like restaurants, it's 20, maybe 15. Yeah. Depending on the level of service. So that makes sense. That that aspect of it makes sense to me that the percentage is lower. The threshold would be lower. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Right. And that they they seem to acknowledge that the people they interviewed that are working in this industry seem to think that 10% was adequate, but they're but they're applying whatever they tend to get. They wanted to apply equally. And my first point in contention was but your effort is the same. Yeah. I don't begrudge them getting a big tip, but their expectation.
SPEAKER_06Is their effort the same? The amount of um like packages that they're having to load into their car is very different and then unload because they're expected to ferry it around. The distance might be the same or different depending, right?
SPEAKER_07Like I think my I I I that's what I said. There are fine points you can make. Maybe there's six bags instead of one.
SPEAKER_06Well, if it's a two-thousand dollar order, there might be boxes and boxes.
SPEAKER_07Okay. Okay. Granted, depending on how expensive the food is.
SPEAKER_03There could be a lot of boxes, Ross. So Or it could be one $2,000 oyster.
SPEAKER_00It's very delicious. Very delicious. That's me slurping a $2,000 oyster. I'm sure you slurp it slowly because.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I'm sorry. Okay.
SPEAKER_07That was an improvement on something. So that's just one point I'm making. Is that is is the is the effort enough to be. Because they're angry. So it's not just, it's not a question of what's fair, it's a question of them having a lot of hate on the customers when they deliver a big order and they don't see the big tip that's commensurate with the tips that they earn on smaller orders. So I my first thought was, well, does it that kind of make sense? It'd be like somebody doing a two-top and you're serving like a group of 20. Right, right. And it's like um you sh the net amount shouldn't be the same.
SPEAKER_06Right. Right.
SPEAKER_07You should get a bigger tip. You know, net to net.
SPEAKER_06I can see that.
SPEAKER_07You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_06I think there's a case to be made then that the base wages of these people should be, these jobs should be more low. Well, you're getting to something.
SPEAKER_07You're getting to something. Okay, so they're very drivers are very competitive because of this in big cities like LA or New York or whatever. So they'll find the places. Apparently, you learn this when you do this kind of work, that there are certain places that you can wait near these fancy big order restaurants where you're gonna get pinged first and you jump ahead. Uh-huh. Because that's the key. You want to get ahead of everyone else. And so people will like have, and some of it might be superstition, but they'll have their phones up like in an alley against the wall. Just like before that worked. Um, and and there will be a lot of tension if everybody's waiting, and some other driver just happens to cruise by the restaurant and gets a paying.
SPEAKER_06There's something that's not good.
SPEAKER_07That's a lot, a lot of turf issues.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, turf issues. There's something so lovely about how as humans we reinvent the same things over and over even as the technology changes. Like some of those places, there probably used to be bands of roving newsies that were like, this is our turf. You can't sell no papers here. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_03No papers for you here. Well, I mean, it's the same thing with the cab like companies, people who who drive cabs. Like there are this the same spots like the airport, but then like, you know, certain really fancy hotels spot. This is my spot. I've been picking up people here for 25 years. You can't park in my spot. No, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can't just come in here.
SPEAKER_07The vibe that I was getting from this article is that the people who are working in this industry are blaming the customer, like they're mad at the customers for not doing the right thing. And my problem with this, or the convenience store person or the person providing a service in my house, and there's a tip, it's like there's very little transparency for customers. Right. We don't know who we're supposed to tip and why. Yeah. We don't know, like we know some stuff, like if somebody's serving you food, that's a no-brainer. So one of the problems I have with with the whole gray area of tipping is like, let's say I go to the coffee shop and I'm buying a coffee and it's costing already with whatever the charges are, like let's it's like $5.50 or six bucks. I'm already paying a lot of money. And then there's like a tip screen or a tip jar or whatever, and you put in another dollar or two dollars, and it's like, oh, it's just a dollar still, and it's going to the people. Now you're paying eight or nine dollars for a cup of coffee. And I just feel like that it shouldn't be like that. And it's like, why is it on the customer? We're already paying an exorbitant amount for the convenience of getting this cool coffee. Fine, that's fine. I don't have a problem with that. Again, you can get cheap coffee if that's all you want. But if you want to get your cool, fancy coffee, it's gonna be expensive. Go ahead. I don't, you know, I'm not here to fight that fight. But if I have to add another two or three bucks on there to feel good about my purchase, so now why should it be on all on me? I feel like the business owner should be taking that slack up. So I don't feel like I've got to pay $9 for coffee.
SPEAKER_06I agree completely. I think it does come back to that thing about yeah, I'm willing to pay more for something if it means that people are paid a fair living wage and there is an upper ceiling.
SPEAKER_07But I when I've ordered my DoorDash food or whatever the company is that I use, I guess is DoorDash, but what you know, I'm trying to like they give you tip suggestions, and I always tip a little higher.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07But I don't know any of this backstory.
SPEAKER_06Right. It's like what is the expectation?
SPEAKER_07What is the I don't I don't know, for example, that uh at a few years ago, even though you were tipping, the company was keeping the tips. Yes.
SPEAKER_06They they they make a point of of having to disclaim now these are going to drivers as opposed to these fees that are coming to us.
SPEAKER_07I mean, you know, so there's that. But you really don't know.
SPEAKER_03But I think that's why they like upped the fees and stuff. Oh, yeah, because they want to still make their overhead.
SPEAKER_07Right. So in a restaurant, that's the easiest case. You can see the servers working.
SPEAKER_06We know we have known culturally for generations this is what you do, this is how you're right in front of you.
SPEAKER_07So you can see the effort, you can see them hustling, you can see them doing it, and you can see them fixing things that aren't right, and you can appreciate that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Yeah. But when someone is showing up at your door with a sack and then leaving, ding-dong ditching a sack of of balls on your doorstep.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, then you really don't know what went into it. You don't know what they're paid, you don't know what their situation is, you don't know that you what you filled in the tip line.
SPEAKER_06I don't know how far they drove from, you know. I don't know Well, you can figure that out, but again, it's sometimes, but they don't always if you look at the app right away at the beginning, right? It shows you where they're starting from. But if you don't, I if I forget to do that, you don't know how long it took them to get to the restaurant in the first place.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_07So this is this is where I come out on this. Okay. This is where this whole thing has been going. It's boiling to the listening. That is Diana Ross, not Donna Summer. Is it Diana? Don't test don't test me. Okay, don't test me.
SPEAKER_04I believe you. Don't push me because I am close to the edge.
SPEAKER_07Here's where I am going. What I want to say is in this gig economy that we're in, and just the way the world is right now, I don't think the burden should be on the customer to make sure people are being paid adequately. If you are hiring people to do a job, you're you need to pay them. Yep. Yes. And we should it's it's because it's I feel like a lot of it, like you go into these places and you're like, do we have a tip to concierge? Do we get a tip? It's why is it on us to figure this out? Why does it us to figure out who needs the money, who's getting the money, how they're sharing the money? There's a lot of variables there, right? We don't know. Absolutely. Well, we don't know Jack. We don't know what happens with the pool tips, as you say.
SPEAKER_06We need to hold these people accountable to pay a living wage, an actual living wage to their workforces. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, and I just feel like it shouldn't like the burden should be the price I pay. Yeah. So if you, if it costs ten dollars for a cheeseburger, so everybody gets what they're supposed to get to have a living wage, that's what it costs. I'm willing to pay that. If I want, if I want a cheaper cheeseburger, I will go make my own. Why are you hating on us? Nobody tells us anything. And most of us are willing to pay. Like, my favorite thing is no matter what it is, if it's just tell me the price and I don't have to pay any more money.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Like, like I like that 20%, like we're adding on 20% automatically.
SPEAKER_06Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_07And it's like, okay, you've decided this is what it should cost.
SPEAKER_06Please. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And I don't have to be worried about it.
SPEAKER_06Well, cynical socialist time, the corporations absolutely encourage and want people to turn their anger and frustration and grief onto the customers and onto each other about subculture because then they're not holding those corporations accountable for paying a living, absolutely.
SPEAKER_07I don't, yeah. And that's so they're they're creating the little squabbling.
SPEAKER_06Yes, exactly, that lets them get off scotch free.
SPEAKER_07Yes. Did you say scotch free?
SPEAKER_06Tip by accident. It is. You're all free. Wow, I am over the math today.
SPEAKER_07It's scotch-free.
SPEAKER_06A kind of squabbling that lets them get off scotch free.
SPEAKER_07A lot of times we're put into this sort of gray area with tips. How much do I tip and who's getting the tip? And I put this money in the in the fishbowl, and how does it get shared? And you know, and is it fair? And do do the people even get it? Yeah. You know, right. There's so there's we don't know. And I think a lot of us would be happy to either just raise the prices and we don't have to worry. Right. That that's that to me, pay your people adequately, and what you know, whatever that costs, that's what it costs.
SPEAKER_06Right, right.
SPEAKER_07So charge me more.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, that's what it comes down to.
SPEAKER_07Tell me how it works.
SPEAKER_06Yes. Tell me your these drivers.
SPEAKER_07These drivers only get two dollars per delivery. So for them to make a livable wage, they have to earn X percent.
SPEAKER_06Right, right.
SPEAKER_07They have to earn this kind of tip on every delivery.
SPEAKER_06And then that also lets me know that you're only paying your drivers two dollars per delivery and I can shame the shit out of you. Right. Exactly.
SPEAKER_07And then you can decide I don't even want to, I don't even want to do this anymore.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's the other thing is that we c we do have the power to support the businesses that are making the choice to pay everybody this equally and enough instead of the businesses that are exploiting people.
SPEAKER_07Do you think actors should get tipped?
SPEAKER_05They're not making jack. No, they are not. It's true.
SPEAKER_07Ladies and gentlemen, most actors in the world who perform do not make hardly any money. Jack shit. Even if they're in a union. The people you hear about in People magazine and in the United States.
SPEAKER_06They are outliers and should not be guys. Exactly.
SPEAKER_07They're in the top half of the one. Unless you're Robert Downey Jr. Um, what do you think about that?
SPEAKER_06I think there are situations in which it should be, and I think that it comes down to that service model more, right? Because in my head, there's something about tips and service. Because like music, also, right? I don't tip at a concert, but I tip if somebody is playing music in a place that I don't necessarily expect there to be, and it's a it's a bonus to the situation. Right.
SPEAKER_07Thank you for joining me for this discussion.
SPEAKER_06Hey.
SPEAKER_07I knew that you would both be bringing the heat rant about capitalists.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Yeah. Well, you know, there's room for that argument in all of this because you kind of if you want to go up, you know, if you want to go to the the beginning, yeah.
SPEAKER_05The root of the issue.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, fix fix the big problem.
SPEAKER_05Right.
SPEAKER_07But even if you don't do that, if you can't do it or don't want to think about it or think it's wrong, there's still this problem that I feel every day whenever I'm anywhere doing anything that I'm paying money for. It's like, am I supposed to leave? Is this what about that person? Are they supposed to get something? And I try to be a good tipper, like that's my motivation.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07But what if I don't know? Right.
SPEAKER_05What if I don't know what good means? Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_07I didn't know these drivers, you know, weren't getting very much money, you know, because that's a lot of overhead for them to carry to drive your food around.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Because it's pretty it works pretty well.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_07I mean, food's usually hot when it gets there. I don't know how they do it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03No, but they do good. I've had a couple of disasters. Yeah. But only a couple. Usually involving pizza. But that's fair enough. Pizza. Pizza's tough.
SPEAKER_07Pizza delivery has always been kind of a hit or miss thing. This is true. This is the history of pizza. It is true. And pizza delivery. Which we cannot get into in the show. But thank you for joining me. I appreciate you both being here. I appreciate you as humans very much. Thanks to everyone for joining us for this episode. We love having you as part of our family, and we hope you will come again. Remember, we said we're stopping by.
SPEAKER_06Thanks for stopping by.
SPEAKER_07And we hope you will tune in to another episode because whether you are groveling for coins under a bus or just watching a fluttering ball sack wafting by your door, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans. Goodbye, everybody.
SPEAKER_06Dance, bus boy. Put something out for us on the Barbie. We're glad you're here.
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