SPEAKER_01 0:00

Well, what's the difference between a dream and a bucket?

SPEAKER_05 0:02

I'd say $14. Am I right? I feel like it's right around there. Welcome to another episode of Smells Like Humans. This is the podcast where we explore the curious things that people do, the very human things that grab our attention and cause us to wonder, what and why? I'm Ross, and my guest today is one of my favorite people in the whole world. And just like Wimpy said, I'd gladly pay her Tuesday for a hamburger today. It's Jenny. Hello, Jenny, and welcome to the show. Welcome everyone. We are so glad you are here. This is the place to be. And we are delighted that you are spending some time with us. Now, Jenny, I want to get started right away. We know we are constantly being goaded into living our life to the fullest. Stop and smell the roses, carpe diem. Don't waste a minute. You don't know what you've got until it's gone. Live for the moment, live every day as if it's your last, and so on. So some people, and you may be one of those people, I don't know, create what are called bucket lists and do what they can to check off the items on the list to make sure they did everything they were supposed to do before they croak. And yet, most of us just plod along, wasting our lives. Or are we? That's my question. I've given this a lot of thought. But for people who are worrying that they need to live often find themselves doing things like going on exotic vacations, doing some sort of extreme sport or activity, like flinging themselves off a cliff or something, or accomplishing something like a college degree or an art project or writing or language learning, reading certain books like Moby Dick, War and Peace, attending certain events. And if that brings you satisfaction to be doing those things, to grab that giant Tolstoy tome and read through it, that's okay. I don't have a problem with that. I'm not saying anything negative about it. But I think these bucket lists can turn into like the ultimate homework assignment. It's more of a burden. If you haven't done all of these things before you die, then you've lived a crap life. Or if you're not living every moment like it was your last, then you're a bum. And by the way, that feels so burdensome to me. Live every moment like it's your last.

SPEAKER_06 3:05

What? What? Is this plane going down? Why?

SPEAKER_05 3:09

Why do I have to do that? It's so much pressure. Jenny, I gotta ask you. You got a bucket list? And if you do, what's on that list?

SPEAKER_01 3:19

I don't have a specific list, as in it's all written down, and there's little gold stars. Although if I have one, there will be gold stars that I'll of course.

SPEAKER_05 3:30

You gotta decorate. If there's no adornment, then what's the point of the list?

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Yes. But I will say that uh, you know, I'm sure as everyone does, we all have kind of a list in our heads of things that we want to do before we die. And my list is ever evolving, and it's definitely changed a lot between the times that I was, you know, 25 to now 46. A lot of different things have happened. So what's on the list right now?

SPEAKER_05 3:58

What's on the top?

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Uh, right now, buying a house. Oh, yeah. That I did never wanted to buy a house until a few years ago. Yeah. Um that's that's yeah, that's pretty good. I want to go to Europe. I've never been to Europe before. Right. Um Yeah, those are those are pretty much the two big things.

SPEAKER_05 4:18

Anything else? Learn to play T ball? No, Pro of Frisbee.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Yeah, let's start playing piano at a late age. No, none of that.

SPEAKER_05 4:28

Play an upright piano.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

No.

SPEAKER_05 4:30

Harps chord.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

I you know, I wish like now I'm willing realizing like how shallow my bucket list is. I don't I don't think I have a lot of regrets. I think a lot of uh what a bucket list is is a regret list.

SPEAKER_05 4:45

I think that's interesting. I think it can be that for sure. I think I feel like they're uh that some people feel a lot of pressure to make something extraordinary of their life. And if they don't, that somehow they've done it wrong. So I've got a couple of takes for you. Yes, please. I think your list is pretty pretty reasonable.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Yeah, but mine's not like a that's not like a bucket list. That's like almost a to-do list.

SPEAKER_05 5:13

I want to go shopping.

SPEAKER_01 5:15

Yes. I need three eggs.

SPEAKER_05 5:17

I need three eggs and some ring dings. Yes. So I got two takes. Okay. We can we can start here and see where it goes. I think and I've been around a while. I think that living life to its fullest actually might be best realized by just goofing around and doing simple junk that you like that it's right at your fingertips, and not worrying at all about whether you're living life to its fullest. I was playing softball the other day. I'm in a softball league. Oh, I didn't see it. It's a competitive softball league. So it's not, we're not just screwing around.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

No one is wearing a pair of jeans. What did you just say? No one's wearing jeans. No one's wearing jeans. You've ever been to a thing or a softball game and someone's got jeans on, and you're like, come on, buddy.

SPEAKER_05 6:11

You're not even here for real. You haven't committed. Who do you think you are?

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Bruce Springsteen?

SPEAKER_05 6:19

So I'm playing, I'm I'm playing in the softball league, and I think I mentioned it is a competitive league, and we're all very serious people.

SPEAKER_06 6:27

Is it like competitive what you are? You know, we we keep score.

SPEAKER_05 6:32

So um the competitive. I'm in the middle of playing a game, and uh inning is about to start, and I'm standing out in the outfield, and I realize I'm facing the wrong direction. No, I realize that uh just the sun and just the being on the field and playing the game, I just feel really good. Like oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

I said, this is we are two different people.

SPEAKER_05 6:55

I said, yeah, no, it's I wasn't having an existential crisis. Like, what the fuck?

SPEAKER_01 7:00

That's that would be me. I'd be like, how why am I not at my job? It would just be like that son, like this isn't my beautiful way.

SPEAKER_05 7:06

This isn't my beautiful outfield. I was happy being there and I felt just really at peace in that moment. Okay, you know, like this is right. That felt like this is exactly what I should be doing with my time. And then uh another inning later.

SPEAKER_06 7:28

And I realized I don't know how to play softball.

SPEAKER_05 7:33

What am I doing? No, so I'm I'm playing, I'm at bat, and I get a hit, and I'm running the bases, and I pull and it's a bad pull of a hamstring. I it's really painful, and I go immediately into the dirt. It's so painful I can't even crawl back to the base. And I hear these people crowding around me because I'm face down in the dirt just in pain, and I hear people on the other team going, tag him out, tag him out, just tag him out.

SPEAKER_06 8:04

Oh, I thought you said take him out. No, no, no. Well, maybe they were saying take me out.

SPEAKER_05 8:09

They maybe were treating me like uh like he's down, he's down, he needs to be killed and take him out. I thought they said tag him out because that's what happened. You know what the best part of this whole thing was? Is not that they didn't kill me, because they didn't, but they didn't really know what to do with me. Like, what do we do with this guy? He's face down in the dirt. We can't keep playing. I mean, we could, but it would be awkward.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

That was their first thought is we can't play this game and not like yeah, because it's competitive.

SPEAKER_05 8:35

No, no, it's competitive. I so if somebody goes down, they would just want to kind of like shovel them off to the side. Roll you up in some dirt, bury you on the field. Yeah, like who's got shovels? Like, let's get rid of this evidence. So I was feeling kind of like uh nobody cared about me. I'm sitting there in pain, I feel horrible. I don't think I'm gonna be able to walk. And all of a sudden I feel someone come, they pick help me get up, they put my arm around theirs, and they help me off the field. And who was it? There's a guy that hangs out uh during these competitive games. He's not a player, but he hangs out and helps do things. I don't really know.

SPEAKER_04 9:10

He's like the pitch witch. I don't know what that means. What's a pitch witch?

SPEAKER_01 9:15

You know, someone who just like kind of hangs out like a healer that hangs out.

SPEAKER_00 9:20

Well, maybe that's what he is an actual thing.

SPEAKER_05 9:22

So he's this I might have just made that up. I know I'm I'm glad that there is such a thing as a pitch witch. Writing it down. So uh I he maybe he is a pitch witch, but he's a he's a guy who obviously is affected by Down syndrome. And so he comes out, he sees that I'm hurt, he picks me up, he helps me off the field, and he's concerned about me. And I have never felt that kind of compassion. You know, because I he only he is totally focused on me. He's not, he doesn't have a dog in the fight, he doesn't worry about who's winning, or he sees a hurt human and he goes out to help me. And he's the only one who did.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

I know that's what I was kind of like saying, alluding to earlier, that no one was like, let's help him.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

No, it was kind of like, how do we get rid of this guy? Like, first of all, tag him out.

SPEAKER_05 10:09

It's competitive softball. Yes, and these guys are serious. But this, I just felt like some instant love. And it was like and in my mind at that moment, even though I was like super uncomfortable, I felt like it was almost kind of worth it to have this experience.

SPEAKER_04 10:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:24

To feel this empathy from another human being.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

Yes, and then my dog got to ride on the sled.

SPEAKER_05 10:32

So uh so take one is uh maybe living life to its fullest uh isn't really the goal.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

And second wait, I'm sorry, how did you get to that take from that?

SPEAKER_05 10:43

Well, that that was still during the take. Oh, so because um what I was doing was I was just I was just playing in this stupid softball game, but I felt extremely content.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:54

I wasn't worried that I wasn't in the Galapagos.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

You had a rough patch, and then you learned the lesson of love.

SPEAKER_05 10:59

Well, all of that happened, but it was incidental to the fact that I was doing something fairly meaningless. I wasn't on the Galapagos Islands, you know, looking for finches.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Wait, so that you're saying that joy comes from and I'm still very confused.

SPEAKER_05 11:18

Like we're gonna start the show over. No, what I'm saying is that sometimes doing these simple things that bring us joy is enough. You don't have to make a list of all these extraordinary activities and accomplishments that you should be doing to make your life count.

SPEAKER_01 11:37

I feel like your whole baseball story. I'm sorry, softball story.

SPEAKER_05 11:41

Competitive softball.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Yes, it was just a story about you bragging about the fact that you go play sports.

SPEAKER_06 11:51

You are just impossible to deal with. Because I didn't understand the through line. The through line was I was doing a simple thing, and I had this very nice little moment with this person helping me, and it wasn't that it was.

SPEAKER_05 12:05

But then you said, and then the moral of the story is that sometimes the simple things are really enough.

SPEAKER_06 12:12

Okay. Why is this so difficult for you to latch on to?

SPEAKER_00 12:17

I just didn't feel like that story came to that conclusion.

SPEAKER_06 12:21

I don't know. I don't know why. I don't know why this is anyway.

SPEAKER_05 12:26

That's take one. There's another take which also might be in the same way confusing because it doesn't relate in some way, but I'm gonna try. Okay. It's a very simple take, and that maybe we should be making the anti-bucket list. The life is too short list. Life is too short to do X. Okay, I understand that. Okay, so give yourself permission not to do certain things and be okay with it. To maybe not live your life to the fullest in the sense that you're jumping out of airplanes and milking yaks, you know, in Nepal, which I'm sure they do there. Do you milk a yak, by the way? I don't know. Do you know anything about yaks?

SPEAKER_01 13:11

I mean, I think you first get the yaks consent and then yes.

SPEAKER_05 13:15

The yak. How do you get a yak's consent? I don't know, you just ask it. I want you to think about things on your list that you would give yourself permission not to do. Yes. To give yourself a break. And I'll go first. Okay, I'm listening. So you have more time. Right. So I've always traveled and I like traveling around the world. I do actually love it. But I there's lots, uh, you'll never go to all the places.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

No.

SPEAKER_05 13:40

And I'm giving myself permission to not go to all the places. And I there's a lot of people right now in my life that tell me, Oh, I'm going here, and they're places that I've also wanted to go, and I'm giving myself permission, you know, not to go. Like I don't have to go there. Also reading certain books. Oh, nice. Like War and Peace, I mentioned earlier. I've never read it. I'm putting that on my anti-bucket list. Life is too short to read War and Peace. I'm just not going to read it. I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

Odyssey.

SPEAKER_05 14:07

Yes, not doing it. Gardening. Everybody talks about how fun gardening is. I just don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

But are you birds? What? What did you just ask me? I have this theory that people, when they get older, become plants or birds.

SPEAKER_05 14:24

Okay. What what what what does that mean exactly? Now who's saying weird stuff?

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Like people as they get older, they either get weirdly obsessed with birds and bird watching, or they'll get like a bird feeder and they'll like stop you mid-conversation and be like, oh, did you see that? Look at that. There's a whistle-tooth fed sucker. They just get really weird about birds. No. Or they'll be like, I like to plant things and look at my plants.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

Yeah, this gardenia looks like it needs a little loamy soil. No, I'm not either one.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Well, you're going to become one of them at some point in your life. You can decide now what you want at what what you weird is going to be plants or birds.

SPEAKER_05 15:06

It's not gonna be plants. Then it's gonna be birds. Alright. So that's settled. Hamilton, I haven't seen it and I don't care. And when I tell people because I love musical theater, and when I tell that to people, they go, You haven't seen Hamilton! How can that be? And it's like just ease up there, road rage. It's okay. Yeah. But that's part of putting things on your life is too short list, is that it's okay to make people scorn you. The other thing I think I'm putting on there is I've really been concerned about leaving a legacy, and I realize I don't have one. All right. What's my leg? I don't have I haven't done anything.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

No, again, this is you're leaving behind this podcast. This can't be my legacy. This can't be my legacy. It's too late. You've already legacied.

SPEAKER_05 16:04

Well, I want to come back to this legacy thing, but first now I've given you a chance. I've stalled. What are you willing to put on your life is too shortlisted?

SPEAKER_01 16:12

I never, ever, ever have to go on a roller coaster. Okay. That's perfect. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:17

And so if you're at an amusement park and someone's pressuring you, you go, no, that's okay. Yeah. I don't need to do that. Yeah. I will punch them in the nuts.

SPEAKER_01 16:26

Whoa. Yeah, that's how much I will not nut. I don't care if they don't have nuts. I will go buy them a bag of nuts and then metaphorically punch their nuts.

SPEAKER_05 16:39

You will deliver it on a concrete or a metaphorical level, the ultimate anti-coaster nut punch.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

Yes. Semi-controversial. I'll never ever have children.

SPEAKER_05 16:51

Oh, okay. And that's a choice. That is 100% a choice. Because you could adopt or you could kidnap. Yeah. And you're taking everything off the table.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:01

No adoption, no kidnapping. No. And that can be, that's sometimes for some people, that's more controversial than not seeing Hamilton. Yes. But usually not. Usually more people are madder about not seeing Hamilton.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

I can see a riot forming out.

unknown 17:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:17

You tell people you're not having children, they go, Oh, okay. But you say you're not going to see Hamilton.

SPEAKER_06 17:23

They go, What is the matter with you? Yeah. You need to be shunned.

SPEAKER_04 17:29

Put on this red letter right now.

SPEAKER_05 17:31

Okay. Anything else?

SPEAKER_04 17:33

Skydive. Anything involving heights.

SPEAKER_05 17:35

Yeah. Because a lot of people say, Oh, I need to I need to go skydiving to prove that I'm alive and that I have control over my life.

SPEAKER_01 17:43

Any of those like need-to-feel alive things. I've somehow missed that.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

Bungy jumping, jumping off a bridge.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

I just, I don't need that thrill. I don't need well, it's not even that thrill. I don't need that affirmation that I'm alive.

SPEAKER_05 17:57

It's a validation that you have agency in your life. And again, if you're a person that does that and it's really made a difference in your confidence and all that, great. I'm just thinking that some people feel like they need to do these things because otherwise they haven't maxed out their life.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Well, so here's the thing is I think sometimes people, and this was this here's yet another controversial statement. I think sometimes people feel people feel they need to do these things not because they need to max out their life, but because they think that by doing these things they will feel like they are more person in the world that is loved and cared for. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 18:40

That's fair.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:41

I think that's all tied up in it. What do I think of myself?

SPEAKER_01 18:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 18:45

Have I been brave and courageous and have I seized the day? And do other people see me that way?

SPEAKER_01 18:51

The more the more that one. Will I be will I finally feel like I'm part of something if I jump out of a plane?

SPEAKER_05 18:58

Yeah. So this legacy thing.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

Me. I don't know why I just said that.

SPEAKER_05 19:04

But yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

Did you just say me? Me. That is the second time today. I did that earlier to my husband.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

He was like, I hope you have a good time. And I was like, goodbye. But I was nowhere near leaving yet. I still had like another like hour before I had to leave.

SPEAKER_05 19:28

Yeah, but that's not as weird as just saying it still just felt strange. It did for me too. So this legacy thing. So I often look at the New York Times obituaries. It's very humbling because if you're in the New York Times in the especially in the bigger sections of the obituary where they actually write something about the person, it's not like the relatives, it's like they actually do a story on this guy invented such and such, or this woman, you know, led this movement or whatever. And the thing that I notice is I've never heard of the people. I've never heard of them. And they did a fantastic thing. They've actually created their legacy in the world. They've left something behind an invention or a movement or an accomplishment, or they were an artist or a dancer, whatever it was. And they actually did something. I've never heard of them. And as soon as I flip that page, I'll I won't be able to remember anything about their name or who they were or what they did. That they just go away. So it's that instant of, oh, interesting. That person invented the uh the shopping, the supermarket scanner. Cool, what a cool thing. Zip, turn the page, forget about it, never think of them ever, ever again. And that's for people who actually have done something, and most of us haven't done anything. So if you read the New York Times obituaries, it can be very humbling because you realize I haven't done Jack. They're not gonna write about me, and no one's gonna remember me anyway, because I didn't even do anything. Like they're not even gonna have an incidental encounter like with my supermarket scanner or a poem I wrote because I was a poet. You know, if you're a famous poet, your stuff lasts forever. People encounter your words deep into the future, and even if you're not there to get a royalty check or anything, at least, you know, you're still having an impact in the world. So I was reading about this woman, Emily Wilding Davison. Oh you ever hear of her?

SPEAKER_01 21:17

No, but I love her name.

SPEAKER_05 21:18

So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

CWD is what we used to call her.

SPEAKER_05 21:22

1872, she was born, lived to 1913. She was an English suffragette. It's all about getting the votes for women in Britain in the early 20th century. She was known as a militant fighter for the cause for women, women's suffrage. She was arrested on nine occasions, went on hunger strikes, and was force fed forty-nine times. That's a lot of force feeding.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah, seriously. And I was counting that.

SPEAKER_05 21:56

I mean, like eighteen.

SPEAKER_06 22:01

And now for the fried chicken course. This is gonna be a little uncomfortable because of the bones.

SPEAKER_05 22:08

She soon became known for uh organizing militant actions, and her tactics included breaking windows, throwing stones, setting fire to post boxes, planting bombs, and on three occasions hiding overnight in the Palace of Westminster. I don't know what she did when she was hiding overnight there. But she was a real firebrand. She uh died an interesting death. She was at a famous horse race known as the Derby.

SPEAKER_01 22:44

Oh, oh, I mean the horses.

SPEAKER_05 22:46

Yes. Okay. And this is where you were prescient earlier. Yes. Where I think it was just before you said me for no reason. And she she went out on the track as the horses are running racing by, like they're going fast, like 35 miles an hour, however fast they run. And she apparently, this is what I think she was doing. She had one of these suffragette banners, and she was trying to put it on one of the horses or somehow get it on the horse.

SPEAKER_04 23:15

This is what you presuppose happened. Well, I'll tell you why I think this. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 23:19

But in any event, she got out there, she gets hit by the horse and dies. Okay. That's how she dies. But she ends up having uh 50,000 people at her funeral, and she was a martyr for the suffragette cause. That's a legacy. Okay. Now some people think at the time, some people were mad because the horse tumbled and the rider tumbled and she ruined a sporting event, so she sucked. Yeah. Some people think it was like a suicide thing. Some people think she was maybe just running across the track. There is videotape of this incident. Oh wow. A kinescope. Someone was filming this race, and it's very blurry, but you it looks pretty clearly that she walks out and she's going to try to put something up on the horse. And she was has as the horse is running. As the horse is running. I think it I don't think it was a plan. I think she got the idea. She didn't think it through. Well, obviously, she didn't think the logistics through.

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Someone had been force feeding her some alcohol.

SPEAKER_05 24:25

Someone that would have been the 50th time. Yeah, I think I think the plan was not well thought out. It seemed to me like she was inspired to put one of these suffragette banners on uh a racehorse. So as it crosses the finish line, everybody sees, oh, suffragettes. Kind of like people do today when they run out in a sporting event and they're some environmentalist or something.

SPEAKER_06 24:45

Soybaum.

SPEAKER_05 24:46

Yeah, soybaum with Bob Dylan. Yes. And that was like at the Grammys or something. Yeah. Soybaum. Soyba. God, I love soybaum. Whatever happened to Soybaum. That's another guy who left a legacy. Sure. Perfect example. So Emily Wilding Davison is this like forever remembered in the in the annals of history of how women got the vote as being this real militant person, but you've never heard of her.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Yeah. And now the thing that I'm going to remember the most about her is this. The death.

SPEAKER_05 25:18

The death.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:19

But but that is someone who created a legacy. My point is it's really hard to come up with something like that.

SPEAKER_04 25:27

Wait, like the her whole life or dying by horse death? Dying by horse death. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 25:34

Because that really cemented her legacy. If she hadn't died by horse death, yeah, she probably she wouldn't even be a Wikipedia entry. But that kind of was so extraordinary.

SPEAKER_01 25:46

Okay. And what I'm saying So are you saying that we can all have our own day legacy? We can do nothing our entire lives but die creatively if we want to have a legacy.

SPEAKER_05 25:56

I'm pretty sure that what I'm saying is I don't think we I think it's too hard to have a legacy. Okay. I think you it's so many pieces have to fit in. And you if you're planning out this, I want to leave a legacy, yeah, I want to leave a legacy, you're not going to put horse death as on the list of the things you need to do.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

I probably wouldn't.

SPEAKER_05 26:13

No, and I don't think she did either. I don't think she was trying to kill herself. I think she was trying to do a publicity stunt and it went horribly wrong. Or did it go horribly right? Well, in the end, yeah, I think, yeah, I mean, she was living a pretty militant life. She was bound to be force-fed the wrong thing, like a giant.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Well, no, but like again, I would define it depends on what your definition of legacy is. Like, is a legacy just that you are known, or is a legacy what you have done?

SPEAKER_05 26:38

I think it's both things. Because And I think most of us are gonna have neither. Like Soybaum, what did he do? We don't know. We don't know, but we remember him.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 26:45

And if you don't know who Soybaum is, all you gotta do is Google it.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

But like this Emily person, the E dubs.

SPEAKER_05 26:53

Wilding Davison. What is her name? Emily Wilding Davison. What a great name. Wilding.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

Like, in some ways, did she leave it live an extraordinary life? 100%. Did she have an extraordinary death? Double 100%. Yeah, she checked all the boxes. So, in some ways, if what I hear you saying is we should all live like Emily Wilding, Davington, and then die.

SPEAKER_05 27:21

No, I'm saying I'm saying just the opposite. I'm saying just the opposite. What I'm saying is I think the glory of life may not be in trying to come up with some extraordinary pastime or hobby or activity or make your mark, end up as a Wikipedia entry, get run over by a horse. I don't that may happen in your life because of circumstances and the the way you're the way you're oriented and the things that you're doing, but for most of us, that's not gonna happen. And that's okay. Because you can be out on a softball field in a competitive game. That's very competitive. It's a competitive, you can be in a competitive league, and you can just feel as much joy as somebody getting run over by a horse. That's not really the point.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

No, no, I want that. That is the point now. But you know what I mean? I'm gonna cross stitch that on a sampler.

SPEAKER_05 28:19

I think I think that most of us like, you know, when they say when someone gets like a terminal illness and it's like, oh, I should have, I've wasted my life, I should have done all these things. I don't think that's wasting your life. I think the the people who are enjoying their life and they're watching bad TV and they're forming like uh bad opinions and they're eating the wrong food and they're doing the wrong things and they're wearing the wrong clothes and they're having the wrong relationships. That's as much a legacy. That's the life. That's life. Okay. It's not you shouldn't be worrying about making every second count because that's such a burden, it's so stressful. Yeah. It's like constantly it comes from a place of lack. Like you wouldn't be here if this trying to make every moment count. Why would you be here talking to me? You'd be out playing softball. These little simple lives that we lead, watching The Bachelorette or you know, hanging out with our friends and wasting time and eating French fries or whatever we're doing, it's like that's the life. That's the living.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

That's I uh that's like when you first started this, I was like, I don't know if I'm the right person to have this conversation with because I find my value in my life and relationships and the relationships I have with people with these kinds of conversations of understanding someone. And is that going to, you know, be me being force fed 49 times? No. It's just, you know, on my deathbed, I'm going to be like, do I have any regrets? Do I regret the fact that I didn't, you know, scale the Grand Canyon or Lasso the Moon?

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:59

That's not gonna be my thing. My thing is going to be like, how many people are gonna be like, oh man, Jenny died? She was cool.

SPEAKER_05 30:07

Yeah, that's your legacy, is all those relationships and all those conversations you've had, and the fact that you had a deathbed, which a lot of people don't go ahead and invest in.

SPEAKER_01 30:17

Well, yeah. And you just die and kicked in a whore.

SPEAKER_05 30:20

Yeah, so she didn't even die in a bag.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

She didn't even get a chance.

SPEAKER_05 30:22

She died on a dirty track.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

I wonder if the same thing though that happened to you happened to her. And everyone just kind of stood around and was like, oh man, we want to race.

SPEAKER_05 30:33

Yeah, no, they people there were a lot, there was a lot of outrage at her initially because she ruined the race. Because she interfered with the sport, just like people were outraged at me for ruining the game. Yeah. Yeah, because it's I don't know if I mentioned this, but it's competitive.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:50

So there's no harm in giving yourself permission to leave things out off your so-called bucket list. You don't have to share it with anybody. You can add or subtract items at any time. The goal is to give yourself permission to feel okay about what you're doing right now. If it's giving you joy, even if it's some people think it's meaningless or trivial or silly, but you are having joy, then that's okay. It doesn't have to be exciting. You don't have to be run over by a horse to experience and enjoy your life. By the way, I doubt our ancient ancestors had any freaking bucket lists. What their bucket list was, I want to live another day.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

What's the difference between a dream and a bucket list?

SPEAKER_05 31:37

I'd say $14. Am I right? I feel like it's right around there. That's like one of those weird essay questions on an SAT. Um, I guess I'm not going to college. I wanted to be a birder anyway. Is that a spooky tail? Finch. I think bucket lists are for people who aren't hungry and don't know how to relax. Because I mean, man, I love food. I love conversation.

SPEAKER_02 32:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:26

And I love goofing off. And if you are doing nothing right now except listening to this podcast and even half listening, then you might be doing it exactly right. Yeah. Give yourself permission to think that. There's an Italian saying, um, il dolce far niente, and it's the sweetness of doing nothing.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:45

And it doesn't mean like you're just sitting on a couch with a blank stare, although that might be what you're doing. But it means that you take joy from doing the simple things.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Like the thing I loved about your pointless story earlier was that you were outside and happy for a moment.

SPEAKER_05 33:03

Yeah. And I in a while.

SPEAKER_01 33:05

And if you had just ended the story there, I would have been like, that was a great story.

SPEAKER_05 33:08

You were wondering about the whole hamstring part. That too. Well, I was getting I was trying to set the stage for the for my rescuer.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Got it.

SPEAKER_05 33:16

And the beauty of that moment.

SPEAKER_01 33:18

Connection.

SPEAKER_05 33:18

As and it was such a simple moment. Like it made that was so extraordinary to feel that. And I didn't have to jump out of an airplane. All I had to do was blow up my leg.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Yeah. Well, I think, I mean, isn't that what life is? Is just beautiful moments and connection.

SPEAKER_05 33:32

And they can be super simple.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:35

Not orchestrated, just putting yourself in relationships and conversations and experiences that bring you joy and see what happens.

SPEAKER_01 33:42

And I think that's what a lot of people are seeking when they jump out of airplanes or they, you know, climb Mount Mount Chupicchu. Like what they're really looking for is that moment of peace and that moment of feeling seen and connected to the world, to other people. Um I think that that's what all we're seeking. And some people go through great lengths to try to find that. And I think some people uh try to find it in themselves and next door.

SPEAKER_05 34:13

Right.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

And I I think that there's no shame in how you try to find it. No. It's just no what you're looking for.

SPEAKER_05 34:19

We all are doing it differently, but I think it's really important to give yourself a break if you're not going to be remembered. Yeah. To give your and and to seek out those simple moments. And if you're enjoying your life and it's pretty ordinary, that may be the best expression of the experience of being a person in the world. And it doesn't have to be super annotated with all of these wild stories and trips and experiences and exotic you know meals and concubines. I don't what's a concubine?

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Is that that's is that it's essentially just a sex worker.

SPEAKER_04 35:03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:03

Except you have no no money. There's no money in concubine? I think you're there's protection, but there's no money.

SPEAKER_05 35:10

There's protection?

SPEAKER_01 35:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 35:12

There's like a 401k? Is that what you mean?

SPEAKER_01 35:14

Usually set up in a nice home. You just said all this wonderful stuff about um it's okay to to to do nothing, to to to to to be nothing, that there is grace and joy in that. But I think that there's also grace and joy in being Mary Wilding.

SPEAKER_05 35:32

Emily Wilding Davidson.

SPEAKER_01 35:34

Emily Wilding Davidson. I think that there's there is also greatness in having a purpose. And whether or not that purpose leaves a legacy um ending in horse death, you know, that's up to the gods. But I think that there's also greatness and purpose.

SPEAKER_05 35:53

You can be you can be a fantastic person who changes the world, and you can be remembered for that. You can also be a fantastic person that changes the world and nobody remembers you. Yeah. And you can be a fantastic person who doesn't change the world and nobody remembers you, and that's okay too.

SPEAKER_01 36:09

You can be a fantastic person who moves through the world being kind and that changes the world and you never know this.

SPEAKER_05 36:15

Yeah. Except for the maybe the games your team won because of you. Thank you, Jenny, for talking about this. And thank you to everyone for joining us for this episode. If you like what we're doing, you can help us by sharing the show. We are so glad you're here. We love that you listen every week, and we look forward to talking with you again, and we hope you will tune in to another episode. Because whether you're you are running out to a racehorse to cement your legacy, or just someone nut punching your way off a roller coaster, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans. Goodbye, everybody.