SPEAKER_02 0:00

What rhymes with finger sandwich? We don't know and we don't care. Welcome to another episode of Spells Like Humans. This is the podcast where we explore the curious things that people do, the very human things that grab our attention and cause us to wonder what and why. I'm Ross, your host, and my guest today is an exquisite human who knows what a black plant is and where to get one. It's Jamie.

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Hi Ross.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Welcome, Jamie. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_00 0:34

I'm great. How are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:35

I am doing better than medium. And welcome everyone. We are glad that you are listening today, no matter where you are in the world or what you might be doing. You are welcome here. Now, Jamie, we know that we are constantly being asked to keep up. And what I mean by that is I feel like I'm constantly asked every day by someone have you seen this show? Did you watch the latest episode? Have you read this article? Seen this post? You've got to see this post. Did you go to the movie? Did you see this movie? This video? Have you been to this site, heard this song, bought this thing, gone to this place, heard about this latest gadget that you can buy? And at some point, it's starting to feel like too much. If you're in a life where you're just trying to keep your head above water with your friends and with popular culture, you can start feeling like a wave crashing on your head. Now, this all came to me because I was listening to a podcast and there was an ad for some kind of technology solution to some kind of problem. And I swear, I'm not making this up. I didn't understand what the hell they were talking about at all. I didn't understand what the problem was, and I didn't understand what the solution was. I didn't understand the words they were using. I realized I bet there's a ton of people who actually know what this person's talking about. And I like to think, you know, I'm out in the world, I'm keeping up. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm doing a lot of the things that other people do, but I didn't know what this guy was talking about in this ad. And my first instinct was to say, well, I better look, let me look into what I don't even know what he's talking about. I don't even understand the problem. Maybe I've got this problem and I I've got to learn about it. And so in that moment of first of all feeling panic, yeah. Not panic, it wasn't all out panic. It wasn't like it wasn't like being trapped in a French elevator, but it was, you know, kind of like it was kind of like a little like upset. And then I asked myself, well, wait a minute. What would an old person do?

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

And I at that moment I just said, you know what? I don't need to know.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Or if I do, I'll find out.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

Yeah. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

We'll cross that bridge. Essentially, I said, Nope, not today, Dick Witch. We're not doing it. You are not gonna get me upset and feel like I'm missing out, that I'm FOMOing my life because I am not doing this thing, or I don't know what people are talking about. And so I just want to talk a little bit about this power. I think it is a power of just saying, I'm not doing that.

SPEAKER_00 3:27

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 3:28

I'm not doing it. I love it so much. And when is it just okay? Because I know old people just eventually they check out.

SPEAKER_00 3:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

They a lot of them, they just check out and they stop giving a darn about anything. And you hear them saying this like, my life's too short, I'm not doing it. So I'm trying to distinguish between you know the cragger, the craggers, yeah, saying, I give up, I don't care. And a healthy attitude. When is it okay for anyone to just stop trying to keep up with everything?

SPEAKER_00 4:04

So me and my husband have this conversation all the time because he has a lot of friends, right? And his friends all have kids, and the friends with kids are always doing stuff together. Yes. And he says, We don't do anything, we don't go anywhere, we don't do anything, and he says to me, like, pretty regularly, that he, you know, he feels guilty about like not seeing his friends. And I say, Well, the kid friends are doing kid things, like they're getting together only because they have kids.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

But we're like in our 30s and 40s, and like we only do what we want to do, and we don't have kids, so we don't go to the kid things. You don't need to feel guilty about not hanging out with your friends because they're not doing what what you like to do. What do you like to do? Yeah, what is the thing that you like to do?

SPEAKER_02 5:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:10

Right? Yeah, it's not hanging out with a bunch of kids.

SPEAKER_02 5:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

I assure you it's not that.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

You know, he likes being home and playing video games. Right. I like being home and watching true crime, you know?

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

I'm not going to a park to hang out with a bunch of kids. I'm just not gonna do it. Right, you know?

SPEAKER_02 5:32

Right. Unless there's a true true crime going on.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Is there an actual crime happening? I'll go and watch that.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

I'll check that out.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Does he agree with that or does he still feel like he's missing out?

SPEAKER_00 5:43

I he does agree with it eventually, and he and he still feels like he's missing out, I think, a little bit, you know. Yeah, and I get that.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

And I think I'm not saying that a fear of missing out or a concern about missing out is you shouldn't do that, you should live your life free of these things. I that's not realistic, and I'm not advocating for that, but I just feel like there is a lot more prompting out there to for us to do things or see things or experience things than there used to be because social media is so ubiquitous and the messaging now coming at us, you know, with people sitting in front of us, but also people online and people we don't even know, influencers and everything, these all these things that we're scrolling through constantly telling us here's a new way to exercise. Right. Here's something to eat that you don't do, this is a pill you should be taking, this is you know, a lifestyle you should be emulating. And it's I feel like the cumulative effect is to feel like you are constantly behind.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yeah. Like I have a friend that that always has to be busy, always has to be doing something, and uh like going to a concert or going to you know, going to a movie or something, and like she's just like stopped inviting me to anything because I'm like I'm not doing that.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

And I'm Are you okay with that?

SPEAKER_00 7:19

I have the opposite of FOMO, which is the fear of missing out. I have like Jomo, like the the joy of missing out. The joy I love not going to stuff, I love being home and not doing whatever you're doing. I love my house. It's like my little witchy cottage, and I'm every time I leave it, I hate it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to do whatever you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

Right. I'm not gonna do it. You would be the little bird of the nest and all the other birds that have flown out, and you'd be like, I'm the No, I'm good.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

I think I'm good here. Yeah, I'll just be here. It's fine. I I flew when I was younger. Yeah. I don't need to fly now. Yeah, I'm I'm okay, right? I'm upset. I'm all kind of comfortable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

Maybe lay another egg or something. I I'll watch it for you. I'll watch the egg. Yeah. And I think it's, you know, we we get on these treadmills and we're chasing all of these experiences, and we forget it's okay not to do everything. Yeah. And we forget it's okay. I think we in intrinsically understand that it feels good sometimes not to do it, just to say no. I love not doing it. But we also get all this pressure to not admit that.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

It's not that we don't feel that way, the joy of missing out. I think we do all have a capacity to feel that way, except for those of us who are just really tuned into pleasing people and and performing our lives. For most people, I think they totally get what you're saying, and they can definitely it definitely resonates with them. But I think there is pressure not to say that out loud.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

Yeah. And also, like I have a an Instagram account that I feel pressure to put stuff on. Right. You know, and that like the it feels like you have to keep creating stuff or posting stuff or whatever to keep people engaged and like that it that's different from like my real life. Yeah. I don't yeah. Well, I don't feel pressure to like do stuff every day, but I do feel pressure to like post stuff every day on this particular account.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

Well, I've read about the life of the influencer, and it never seems this even if they're like super successful and are making some real dough doing it, it never seems like a happy life.

unknown 10:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:06

Because they all have talked about the constant pressure to continue to produce content because you're competing with all the other content. And people, even your truest fans, will move on if they're not getting what they need. Yeah. Or they get tired of what you're doing and you haven't changed it up and all this stuff. And, you know, even doing a podcast, it's like we produce this podcast every week for the better part of two and a half years. Yeah. And it got to the point where I finally said, I just can't like do this anymore. It's just too much extra.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:45

So we took a we took a hiatus, but we came back and we're just doing short seasons now.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

And that works. Like that works. But to do those weekly shows just became a real grind. And, you know, we just we just stopped. So we're glad to be back, but man, it there's so many things, you know. It's like the other day I was reading, it just struck me, I was reading an article about a thousand dollar Prada tennis shoes. And I'm like, what the fan fiction are we talking about? What really, what are we doing? Yeah. Like it just felt like like a stress bomb. Like, this is what you need to have now. And I'm like a thousand dollar tennis, any kind of tennis shoe, Prada tennis shoes. Don't take them to the gym and put them in your locker because those things are gonna get filched. Right. No way. Or and then the thing, oh man, this just happened. So I was watching a show. Like I start, and this is happening more and more. So I start watching a show. Fill in a blank, whatever shows you've heard of, I start watching them. Like everybody else.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:51

And then I kind of they just like the writing stops working, or they they they just didn't really have a good idea for a second season, but they got the money for a second season, and they can't figure out what they're doing. So I just lose interest. Right. And I'm okay, like I'm fine. Like, yeah, it's like you pick up a book and it's no good. I don't feel like I have to finish it. But then you get these messages from people like, have you ever watched Fill in the Blank? And I'm gonna use the real example I got, Ted Lasso. Have you did you watch? Have you watched it? Yeah, I watched the first season and a half, but then it just took a weird turn. And I said, I don't this seems inconsistent with what this show was supposed to be. So I'm out. Yeah. And then the people say, Oh, you've got to give it a you've got to give it a chance. Yeah, you've got to give it a chance. It gets so much better. I know what you're saying, yeah, but you've got to give it a chance. And it's like, really, though? But do I have to give it a chance?

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Must I?

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Like, why? Yeah. Or you gotta travel to this place, or you gotta see this thing, you've gotta do this diet, you gotta get this new phone. Yeah. I've heard recently that people are just saying no to new phones, but but it's that constant pressure to keep up. Do you remember when people used to camp out for phones for the latest iPhone? They camp on the street. Yep. It's like I think a lot of people are starting to think about that differently. Like, do we really need this crap? Do we really need the latest thing? I think though, going back to this power, because I've been playing with this more and more, there is real power in just choosing not to play. And you can be selective. Just say, I'm not doing that. And I think this can come in handy for a lot of unpleasant things in our life. Like criticism. Somebody criticizing the way you are, the way you are in the world, what clothes you wear, where you work, where you don't work. I think you can just say no. So, like, let's say you're telling me that you think I'm eating too much. Try it.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Rouse, you're eating too much.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

No. And I don't say anything else. What are you gonna do again?

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Right. You're not gonna say anything.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

Or you're gonna say, what do you mean no? Like, no, no is not an answer.

SPEAKER_00 14:20

Number one, I would never tell you that.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

Well, thank you. And I was actually hoping you brought some finger sandwiches. I haven't seen you produce one finger sandwich.

SPEAKER_00 14:30

That's true. I never bring you finger sandwiches.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

You never bring me finger sandwiches. That was that a song.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

That's my biggest fault. Was that a song in the 70s?

SPEAKER_02 14:38

You never bring me finger s you don't bring me finger sandwiches. Something like that. What rhymes with finger sandwich? We don't know and we don't care. So yeah, I just I really think we don't say no enough because people will challenge it, but it really does interrupt transactions with other human beings. You just say no, because then they're forced to like say, Well, what's happening?

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

If you're in the middle of an argument and you don't know what to say, but you just say no, then the it's just stops it. And the person, what do you mean no? That's not an answer. You go just no to all of it. I'm just saying no, I'm not doing it. I think we can say no to a lot of things that we don't say no to. It's a full stop. It's just like no. And people are constantly giving you advice, I think, on what you should be doing. Yes. And it's just part of being a human. We always want to help help people out a little bit. Just give them a little advice. Just give them a little advice. I've got a new question I'm asking when I get advice that I don't ask for.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

Oh, okay. Well, that's that.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Well, what was that question I asked you exactly?

SPEAKER_00 15:55

I like that, actually. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:58

Yeah. Yeah. Oh, you didn't ask me that. Exactly. Right. I didn't ask for it.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

The thing is, I didn't ask.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

I didn't ask. What was that question? I know it's a little snarky. It's a little snarky. But I feel like it's okay. Yeah. Because it's a it's a verbal slap in the face. Like, look, nobody is asked for your advice. You know, if I you have to trust that if I really want to know what you think, I'm gonna ask you.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

But if I don't ask you, that's a clue. That's a clue. The first time that ever manifested for me that I remember with my father, who was kind of a critical guy, he would criticize your choices and tell you what's wrong with them. And when you were a kid, he was usually right. You know, there were you make even though he thought you were making good choices, he was right. There were some of them were bad.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

But I was like certainly like middle 20s, so I was not in the house anymore. And I bought a black car. And I told him that. I told him I bought a new car. I think it was the first new car I ever bought. Up until then, it was just beaters, you know, like egg beater cars that were like 900 years old, had only two cylinders, sounded like a lawnmower. But this was my first new car. And he goes, What color? And I said, Black is oh, black is a bad color. It's gonna be really hot. And without even thinking about it, I said, Well, it's a good thing you never have to ride in it.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:28

And and he laughed because he realized immediately that what I was telling him is I'm doing my own life. Yeah. So the days when you would tell me something and I'd be like, Oh, I made a mistake, or whatever you think the reaction should be, those days are over, junior. I'm out, I'm out of this, I'm out of this relationship, at least in that regard. And I think, you know, that what that's always a story I tell, and it's meaningful to me because it was automatic.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:59

I didn't like plan anything, it wasn't some script I read. If he ever criticized me, I'm gonna say it just came out. Yeah, immediately. But I'm done with trying to fix those things, yeah. All the things to make you feel better.

SPEAKER_00 18:15

Yeah. I have a business in downtown Portland, but people love to give me advice. Yeah, like I like I went to a block party for our neighborhood on Friday, and I was talking to one of the ladies there about the business. Have you ever thought about maybe not do not being downtown? Like, yes, yeah, of course I have. Of course, yeah, but that's not what I'm doing. That's not what I'm doing. And I it's it's just happened so many times. People love to offer their like advice, and I'm like, you think I'm like so stupid that I've never thought of that one single time.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

You know, I think so like this whole advice thing, it's like I don't know. I think there's part of it is like they people in our life feel that they have a brainstorm. Like, oh, the light bulb just went off over my head, like a cartoon character, and now I want to share.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

So I think they think this it's a new idea. I there may be some that like, well, obviously, this I'm so smart that I thought of this. This other person couldn't have thought of it because it's so genius. Yeah. So I think there's part of that. So it is there, it is not intentionally malicious, but it kind of reads a little bit condescending.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

And then I think there's this real human need to, I think there must be some evolutionary significance to our instinct to help each other. Yeah. Like, let me help you. Like you see someone in the old days, now everybody has GPS, but in the old days, you would see somebody on the street in a city and they would obviously be visiting because they'd be out there with a map. Right. And they'd be like, I don't know where I'm going. Uh-huh. And you could say, Hey, are you looking for something? Maybe I can help.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:05

And, you know, a lot of people actually appreciated that kind of help. Right. Because they actually were lost, and there's just somebody could guide them. We probably evolved as a community of humans by that as one element of like, let me help you, let me guide you, let me show you where the where where the monsters live so you don't get eaten by the monsters, right? Let me show you which berries to eat. Maybe you ought to not eat those mushrooms. You know what I mean? It's like there must be some, because we all kind of, it's it's not coming from a mean place, advice giving. Right. But it it can feel intrusive. If I'm going to to Mormontown, what's called Utah.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

Salt Lake City, yeah, Utah.

SPEAKER_02 20:53

So I'm going to I'm going to Salt Lake City and I don't know anything about Salt Lake City. So I go, I would, I might say, Jamie, Jamie Kins, Jamster, where should I be? What should I be doing in Salt Lake City? Or even if I say I'm going to Salt Lake City and you say, Oh, let me just tell you a couple things that you may not know. It won't bother me.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:15

Unless I've already planned my trip. Then for some reason, something about if I already have a trip plan and people say, Oh, you know where you need to stay? Where are you staying? Oh, you no, we you have to stay here. Right. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

Well, I've already booked this other place. So I don't need your guidance.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

If some that kind of bugs me, or they say, Oh, this is the you gotta have a meal at this restaurant. And I'm always thinking, like, so when were you there? Right. Two years ago, and you had a good meal. How do we first of all know that the same chef's there? It's the same place, they're serving the same menu. And there's so much variability there. Like, you could go to the coolest restaurant and you sit next to people who are super loud, yeah, or something else is annoying. It kind of ruins it. And it's like, who cares how good the food was? It was not a good experience. So there's just so many variables when it comes to this experience. Or you have to go to this museum, or you have to. And so part of that feels to me like people are saying, I want you to do what I did and feel the way I did. And then I want you to tell me you did it and you felt the same way.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:31

You know what it is? I think it feels like homework. When someone gives me a specific recommendation. Now, again, not as much if I haven't planned it. Yeah. This came to me the other day because somebody is planning a trip that I happen to be invited on, but I have nothing to do with it. Like I don't have any stake in it. And then some person said, Oh, I know the best place to eat a meal in this location. And I was fine. I don't care. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not planning this. I have no stake in it. I don't care what we do. I'm going along with this group. I'm not organizing it. But if I'm planned it, then it bugs me. So what's your analysis, Doctor? Why does it bug me when I'm planning it?

SPEAKER_00 23:20

That's a good point. Yeah. It would I think uh yeah, if you don't have a plan, then it it then it doesn't mess it up to have somebody give you a plan. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Sure. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

If I if I know what I want to do already, don't tell me what to do.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Well, I've already made the choices.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

I think it might go back to my childhood where I did have a father who was always second guessing you. It would just say that's the wrong thing. So maybe it's triggering that feeling of I've made a plan and now you're telling me that's a bad thing. I think I think it's all my father's fault.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:56

Well, we've solved Papa Ross. Papa Ross. I don't know what his name is. No, his name was Papa Ross. It's Papa Ross. He was what's the baby daddy? Is he my what's the baby daddy? Well, baby daddy is somebody who has a kid with so the baby daddy. Yeah. You have a kid. That what who's the baby? Is that who's the baby daddy?

SPEAKER_00 24:23

He is the father.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

The father of the baby. Of a baby. So he's the baby's daddy.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

Yeah, but not the father.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

He's not the husband. He's not the husband. He's not married.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yeah, I think. So he's the baby daddy. Or he's married to somebody else. Or he's yeah, but he's a bad thing. But he has a baby with you.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

So my dad was the baby daddy of me. Although my he was married at the moment. To your mom? Yeah. So he's not a baby daddy.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

No.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

We can't call him baby daddy.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

He's just your your dad.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

He's my regular dad.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

Yeah, just a regular dad.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

He would be shocked to be called baby daddy.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

That's my neighbor's dog's name, is baby daddy. Baby daddy.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Oh man, I met the greatest dog yesterday. His name was Teddy. Oh. And he was an Australian cattle dog.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

And he was so great. And you know, I was petting him and stuff. And then later on, we're sitting around having a little snack. And he goes right to me.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

Because you know, dogs will always go to the weakest link.

unknown 25:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

Like they're like, oh, my owners aren't going to give me. If they don't feed him at the table, he already knows. Teddy, Teddy knows.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

I'm not getting jacked from these clowns.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

So it's like, then there was other people, but here was a guy that was petting me and talking to me and sweet talking to me on the street. So he's the weakest link. This guy's going to slip me to the salami.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:43

I did not, because have being a dog owner, I, you know, a former dog owner, I respect. I respect that not everyone feeds their dog from the table. But I wanted to. Speaking of my baby daddy, he would always sneak food to my dog. Yeah. Any dog I've ever owned, he would sneak food. He thought that was part of his role as the baby daddy.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

What was he of the dog? He was not the dog's baby. Grand baby daddy. Grandbaby daddy.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

Yeah. Can you be a baby daddy to a dog? Because a lot of people call dogs their boy. You call your dog the boy. Their boys.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

My good sweet boy.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

My good sweet boy.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

Good sweet boy. And then I won't Millie's just Millie. Yeah. But Mouse is my good sweet boy.

SPEAKER_02 26:31

My good sweet.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

Millie is just Millie. She's Millying all the time.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

So we can say no anytime. And I ad I if you think I'm blowing smoke up your baby daddy butt, just try saying no today a little bit. Try saying no. Even if it's only in your mind. It's like you get an invitation, just say no. If you don't want to do it, you don't have to do it. You know that I, and you know, there's lots of people like me, but I gave up on social media. I just gave up on it. And I'm fine. And people say, Well, I know, but don't you miss? And it's like, no, I actually don't miss.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

If I need to know something, I'm going to find out.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

I'm going to find out somehow. And when people put a phone in my face that you have to watch this, I I do it out of politeness, but it feels like, hey, forced. Spend attention, spend time looking at this. Spend time watching this show. Spend your time this way. You're not spending your time the right way. And maybe that's going back to this like travel advice thing. It's like people are constantly telling you, and the media, the popular culture machine is constantly telling you, you're not spending your time right. You need to have a thousand dollar prod of shoes. Right. You need to be, you need to be spending your time this way. And why? Because that's what everybody else is doing. And don't you want to talk to people about the same shows and the same topics? And the answer for me is actually, I don't want to talk to people who do what I do.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

I don't want to talk to people at all.

SPEAKER_02 28:03

Okay, well, and that's another route. Just say no to people. Yes. It's okay not to peep up all the time or ever. Well, thank you, Jamie, for joining me and the rest of us for this episode. Thank you, everyone, for joining us. If you like what we're doing, uh share the show. That's the best thing you can do. Reach out to us. We'd love to hear from you. And we hope you will tune in to another episode because whether you are just taking an old person holiday or just someone trying to be the best baby daddy you can be, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans. Goodbye, everybody. Old person on a holiday.