Smells Like Humans
Top 5% global podcast! Smells Like Humans is a seasonal podcast dedicated to bringing a humorous perspective to quirky and curious aspects of human behavior. Each show, the SLH crew will focus on a different topic, and share personal stories and observations in a way that sounds like you’re hanging out with your funny friends. The stories and commentary are presented with humor and warmth, since let’s face it: we all smell like humans. (Contact us: contactSLH19581980@gmail.com)
Smells Like Humans
YOU PROBABLY COULD USE A HOT, STEAMING BOWL OF SELF-COMPASSION RIGHT ABOUT NOW
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Theatre artist and mindfulness practitioner, Caitlin, joins the show from MERRY OLD ENGLAND, to discuss how we can improve our well-being by developing our self-compassion muscle. Tangents include: Problems with getting a cat through airport security; cryogenics; gambling; London cab drivers; carrying on without black beans; timing animals going to the bathroom; and razor blades in suits. Take a drink every time you hear "Dr. Kristin Neff".
Notes:
Contact us: contactSLH19581980@gmail.com
I guarantee you that is not what they're thinking. They are not tracking your movements, Ross.
SPEAKER_04I think they're tracking me. They're tracking my movements.
SPEAKER_05Um I like though that you're trying to help me, Ross. I'm trying. The world is not really interested in anything you're doing. That is good feedback for me. Welcome to another episode of Smells Like Humans. This is the podcast where we explore the curious things that people do, the very human things that grab our attention and cause us to wonder and why. I'm Rock, your host, and today I am excited to get a visit from my friend Caitlin. Hello, Caitlin.
SPEAKER_00Hello, Frank!
SPEAKER_05Caitlin was on the show last in September, and we discussed mindfulness. And I will tell you, Caitlin, that it's still one of our more popular episodes. So if you're listening to this. Yeah, that's great. And a lot of people like that. And if um if you're listening to this and you haven't listened to the mindfulness episode, you should do that because I think it'll fit into nicely what we're talking about today. And I just want to welcome everyone who's listening. This is now our second season. We appreciate all of you very much. And I'll talk to you at the end about how you can help us. But for now, let's chat. So, Caitlin, last time we talked about the benefits of mindfulness, and today we're going to chat about a related concept: self-compassion.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Which seems like a great topic for right now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, boy, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. As we're recording this, this show will play a few weeks from now, but we're recording it right in the middle of a surge. And uh so the pandemic is is still going strong. And I hope by the time this airs, uh, we're in a better place. But right now, Caitlin, as far as I understand it, all my sources report that you are in merry old England right now.
SPEAKER_00I am indeed. I'm in the merriest of England. I'm in is that even a thing? I don't know. I'm in London.
SPEAKER_05So you moved there a few months ago, right?
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05You took your entire family, you packed up a bunch of steamer trunks, you got on a boat, a boat and you uh crossed the Atlantic.
SPEAKER_00That's right, with my petticoats.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So and my parasol.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you that's so great. That's so great. A parasol, that's perfect. And you would go up on the on the Leto deck. I don't even know what that is, but you would go up on it and you would talk about porpoises. Anyway, so you're in England right now, yeah, and I just have to ask you, so this is a pretty kind of major transition that you made four months ago or whatever it's been. And I'm wondering, what's the most interesting thing that's happened to you in the move or during the process of moving in or just living there? Is there anything that stands out as an exciting adventure or just something weird that happened?
SPEAKER_00Get the process of getting here. If anybody, if you've never moved your entire life overseas, I don't it's a lot, I'll just say. I'll say that. Um yeah, it was it it went wrong in every possible way that it could have gone wrong. We've got our cat with us, and we've like, we've like planned for all the contingencies, right? So I've got this travel litter box, which is like, in retrospect, I'm I'm like, how was she was she really gonna be like, oh yeah, this seems normal and fine, and I'm totally calm and feeling great about myself. I'll just take a quick whiz. I don't know how I thought that was a gonna be something that happened, but we did have one, and we had also packed some litter in these um clear plastic bags. And Jordan had the litter in his carry-on suitcase so that under any event we were like prepared and ready to go. And I had the cat with me. Yeah, and so we're going through TSA and uh we put all our stuff in, and I'm going first, and someone motions to me and they're like, What's in your bag? And I'm like, Well, it's a cat. And they're like, Well, we need to scan the bag. So can we take you into this back room so we can take the cat out and scan the bag? And I'm like, Yeah, great, that sounds good.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00So I leave the line and I'm heading over to, you know, take take poor half-drugged bean out of her bag and be like, This is fine. I promise it's gonna be fine. Don't hate us forever. Uh, meanwhile, Jordan is moving through the line and uh the TSA agent opens up his suitcase and his face like lights up because he's just found four plastic baggies of some crumbly substance within them.
SPEAKER_03And it's you were clear drugs.
SPEAKER_00It's clear that he thinks that he's made the drug bust of a century.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's why you were so tense. No wonder you were so stressed out.
SPEAKER_00Just trying, trying to smuggle in our our drugs. Yeah. He's so excited and like he can't, he's not even hiding it well. He's like, he like pulls out the bags and he pulls Jordan aside and he's like, What is this? And Jordan's like, it's cat litter. And he looks at Jordan and he's like, Well, where's the cat? And Jordan's like, You just pulled my wife away with the cat. I don't know what to tell you, but she's over there in that room getting scanned. And he's like, Oh, and he's like grilling him and not sure about it. And then finally I finished the scan and come back over. And he's like, Is this your husband?
SPEAKER_06And I'm like, Yes.
SPEAKER_00And it was all it was all fine, right? Because it was definitely cat litter, but there was this moment where we thought they're not gonna let us in because they think we're smuggling cat litter drugs into England.
SPEAKER_05How is the cat?
SPEAKER_00She's amazing, so she's adjusted. Oh my god, yeah. She was like, she was a champion. Like we we had two flights, um, and we got her through both, and we we pulled out that litter box and tried to like get her to go, and she held that P for 24 hours of traveling.
SPEAKER_02That's what I knew.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, oh my God, she was amazing. I mean, I thought we were very worried about her because by the end we were in a car and she was very like limp. She's very just like super conserving energy, just like, yeah, like we were very worried. We were like, oh no, like she's probably really dehydrated, she really hasn't drunk very much water except like licking it off of our fingers and hasn't eaten anything either, right? And and we have these, like we had these um drugs that we had gotten from the vet to try to keep her calm, which had sort of worked.
SPEAKER_05Um you mean you were taking them?
SPEAKER_00No, I oh, you mean they worked on her? That would have been good for me. No, it worked for her, yeah. But when we got when we finally got to the to the flat, we got in, we're like completely exhausted, we set up the litter box, and that incredible cat had the longest we I have ever witnessed in my entire life. And did you time it?
SPEAKER_05Did you have a stopwatch?
SPEAKER_00It was long enough for me to pull out my phone and take several very adorable pictures.
SPEAKER_05Wait a minute, you took a picture of the cat?
SPEAKER_00Oh my god, yeah. Are you kidding me?
SPEAKER_05Oh my god. Oh my god. Well, I'm glad that she made it and that all of you made it. And uh, you totally understand that you you just don't want to go on the plane. You want to wait till you can have your own sort of situation.
SPEAKER_06Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_05It's very anxiety interesting. I don't like to go on the plane.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05I don't like it when because sometimes like you you you start the process and you're like drinking a lot of fluids on a long flight, so you end up having to get up a lot.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And and everybody's looking at you like, didn't you go like an hour ago?
SPEAKER_00Like I guarantee you that is not what they are thinking. They are not tracking your movements, Ross.
SPEAKER_04I think they're tracking me. They're tracking my movements.
SPEAKER_05Um I like though that you're trying to help me, Ross. The world is not really interested in anything you're doing. That is good feedback for me. One time I was trying to get through um, you know, security like a normal person, and I was wearing it was like a a trip where I had to wear a suit. So I had a suit jacket, and you have to take that off and send it through separately.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_05And so I did, and you know, my junk comes through and all of a sudden they say, Hey, hey, who whose jacket? Who does this belong to? They're holding it up, so you know that's bad, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_05But like it's like whenever they hold up anything and say, That is the moment of dread, isn't it?
SPEAKER_00Your stomach just drops, yeah, because then you just don't know.
SPEAKER_05So I go over there and they say something like, Why are you bringing a razor blade on the airplane?
SPEAKER_03And I'm like, what are you talking about?
SPEAKER_05Like what? Like, I'm just trying to get my mind wrapped around what they're asking me. Because, you know, they will say things like that, and sometimes like you don't know what they're talking about. Like one time I was trying to bring a golf club on a plane, and they asked me why I was bringing a weapon on the plane. And I'm just like, it's a couple of that's what they asked you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, why are we a big one?
SPEAKER_05Sir, are you planning? The TSA person says, Sir, are you trying to bring a weapon on the plane?
SPEAKER_00And I'm just like, Oh my lord.
SPEAKER_05You mean that putter? So um, so they say, you know, why are you bringing a razor blade? And I'm like, uh, I don't uh know what you're talking about. I don't own any razor blades. I don't, there's no razors in my life, not like that. And so they show me on the X-ray my jacket, and you know how you can see right through it, and there's a big like razor blade in there. Oh like somewhere in the jacket. I'm like, ah, this is a complete mystery. And by the way, I'd worn this jacket through the airports before, and no one had ever said anything. So thank God. So they took me aside just like you. I didn't have to go into a separate room. I never want to go in the separate room because a lot of people don't come back from the separate room. But um, so they take me, they take me aside and I'm like, I don't know how how this is even a thing. And I start feeling the jacket, and sure enough, I feel inside the lining there is something that feels like it's a razor blade, which had to be because it was on the x-ray. But I was like, wow. But it's it's sewed up inside, like I was trying to smuggle it on.
SPEAKER_00This is so weird. So I'm trying to I'm trying to imagine all the different ways that this could possibly come out. And it, I'm telling you, Roz, I can't imagine a way this comes out good for you.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. Well, they were, yeah, just like you, there was like a person who was just on it, you know, like they were just so excited that they had caught a terrorist in in the act. And I'm, you know, trying to explain that I don't know anything about it. And I realize that's just making it worse. I'm just sounding like somebody, exactly what somebody would do if they were caught. Well, I don't know how it got in there.
SPEAKER_02Don't ask me. Right.
SPEAKER_05So, um, so anyway, I I do all the explaining and they say, well, um, whatever. You can't, you know, if you want to get on the plane, you got to leave this jacket. Uh, can you mail it to me? No, we don't do that. And I saw this other person was standing there and they were already thinking about that jacket will fit me. You know what I mean? Like they already like, we're we're keeping this.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_05So I said, how about this? How about we rip the lining open, take the razor blade out, throw that out, and then I take the jacket. And they're like, okay, we'll let you do that.
SPEAKER_00We hadn't thought of that.
SPEAKER_05Um, no, because I wanted the jacket. But anyway, so you know, I was able to do that and uh get away with it. Uh no, I mean and and you know, get my jacket back and and uh and everything was fine.
SPEAKER_00Wait a second, Ross. There is a key question that we are not asking in this moment. Why was there a razor blade sewn into your jacket?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Well, I'm glad you asked that because I started thinking about it, and then I realized that, and I think when he was cutting threads or doing whatever they do, they use razor blades, maybe, and they dropped it in there by mistake and didn't notice it, or just figured whatever. So I that's what I figured.
SPEAKER_00So get on a plane with this jacket?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so the so I call the place. So I call the place that made the suit for me and let them know this little story. Hey, this kind of happened. So, you know, there was a razor in my jacket, and and uh, and I couldn't get through security. And he says, Oh yeah, you shouldn't uh you shouldn't travel with a razor blade in your jacket.
SPEAKER_00Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_05And I'm like, Yeah, you think? Yeah, so you get there and you're in London right now.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And do you like it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05You do?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I do, I really do. Um I love living here. The I mean, we don't have a car, right? So the one of my favorite parts about living here is that we walk everywhere.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, or take the tube or the bus. And um in fact, the first like two weeks after we had arrived and begun sort of walking around and trying to get our bearings and um figuring out where do we get groceries, all these little questions that you don't really think about. You're just like, and especially, especially since the process of getting here was so stressful. Right. There's hardly any thought put into like what what it looks like once we land. Right. Right. Um we were, I mean, we were so sore. We were like, it's I know we're not in that bad of shape, but there is a there's a when there's just a totally different change of pace when you are walking every day and your body, there's this body adjustment, right? Of like um the jet lag and the time adjustment and using your muscles in a different way. It's it sort of slowly wears you down. So it's sort of this slow exhaustion, the slow burn of like, oh my God, we didn't even think about getting a bank account and now we have to get a bank account. Or little little things like you know, planning meals for the week and going, oh, we'll make quesadillas with you know, black beans and cheese and tortillas. Well, black beans in a can is almost impossible to find here.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, they don't have black beans in a can.
SPEAKER_00No, they have baked beans. You can get baked beans, baked beans for days because beans on toast. But uh yeah, just little little things that you are accustomed to just being there. Um, it's just it's that it's that steady onslaught of adjustment, constant adjustment.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so you're sort of running at a higher energy level all the time, yeah. Just making the adjustment, and you're still probably doing it, it's gonna take a while for you to really, really settle in. I always say at least six months have to go by in any new situation, even if it's just a new job, before you start kind of like getting it. But you know, you're handling the main things like where do we how do we eat? Where do we get money? Those are things that you're handling. That's good. I'll tell you the my favorite three things about London.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, tell me.
SPEAKER_05Here are my favorite three things. Number one, the cab drivers know where things are.
SPEAKER_00They do, yeah.
SPEAKER_05So you don't get into a cab like in America. In a big city in America, you get in a cab and you say, I want to go to the Empire State Building, and they look back at you and say, I don't know where that is. How do I get there? Is that real?
SPEAKER_00Is that right? Oh, yeah. No way. Not in the internet.
SPEAKER_05Everything, I know, that nobody knows. And uh, this is why cabs sort of everybody started taking Ubers and Lyft, not just because they were sometimes cheaper or more easier to get, but because at least those people driving the ride share cars have GPS.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_05Where for a long time, even though everybody in the world had GPS, you'd get into a cab in New York City and it'd be like, no GPS. And if the person doesn't know where anything is, and then they say, Well, can you look it up on your phone? And I'm like, No, I'm no, you're the I don't want to do anything. That's why I'm paying for this ride. It's like I mean, I'll put the money down on a down payment on a Subaru and just do it myself. So, um, but in London, it's and I haven't been there for a few years, but the last time I was there, I was stayed at some really out-of-the-way place in London. It was like one of those streets that is probably like centuries old and is just hidden somewhere. And the cab drivers did find it.
SPEAKER_00In London, I just said, you mean every street in London.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, like that.
SPEAKER_00There's not a street in London that doesn't have some incredible history attached to it.
SPEAKER_05Exactly, because you know, it's old. But yeah, the guy found that I the guy found it without getting lost, and he said, Wow, this was uh this was a tricky one, but I thought this is where it would be. And I was impressed.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I was impressed.
SPEAKER_05So that's number one. Cab drivers know where things are, and I know they have to learn the knowledge, like you know, they have to have, they have to, at least they used to. They have to learn all of the streets to be able to get a license. Number two, the gherkin.
SPEAKER_00The gherkin.
SPEAKER_05You know, the thing that looks like a big pickle in the middle of the yeah, no, absolutely. So um, I don't really the building's cool, but I just like saying the gherkin.
SPEAKER_00The gherkin. But yeah, my husband loves that, loves that building as well.
SPEAKER_05Does he call it the gherkin?
SPEAKER_00Probably not as creeppily as you're saying.
SPEAKER_05No. And then the third thing, the third thing is there's no bad smells in London. Oh no bad smells. It's amazing. I've never been in a big city that didn't have any bad smells. I don't know how they do it. Everything smells fresh as a daisy.
SPEAKER_00Boy, what London did you visit, Ross?
SPEAKER_05I don't know. The London in my mind. The London in my mind.
SPEAKER_00Um, I think I think so.
SPEAKER_05But congratulations to you for taking this big step. I really do honestly get excited when people take risks in order to follow their passion. And what else are we doing here if we're not trying to follow our passion?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05What the hell is your passion, anyway? What is your passion?
SPEAKER_00What is my passion?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_00The color and flavor of my research has sort of funneled from um, I'm gonna explore mindfulness and theater and how they intersect to very specifically um how we train actors in self-compassion.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_00And and what it might look like for that to be uh a deeply integrated part of their practice um moving into the world.
SPEAKER_05Okay. Well, that's exactly what I want to talk to you about.
SPEAKER_00I think a I think a good way into it is to tell a little bit of the story of how I landed there.
SPEAKER_03Sure.
SPEAKER_00Um about week two of my studies, into my studies, so it was very early on, um, I started experiencing really intense resurgence of professional. Perfectionism. And so how that manifests for me is really intense self-criticism, shame, spirals, and a lot of anxiety. Okay. So I knew immediately that something was off. So I started doing a lot of research on perfectionism, thinking like, oh, okay, I'm going to study like perfectionism and actors and try to understand, like, you know, how do I, how do I move through this? Um, how can I help others move through this? And as I was going through a number of TED talks on perfectionism, the TED talk from Dr. Kristen Neff came up. And Dr. Kristen Neff is a uh, I think it's safe to say she's one of the leading US researchers on self-compassion. She's got a lovely TED talk that does a really nice job of explaining the difference between self-compassion and self-esteem. And it was that, for me, it was defining the difference between the two that clicked for me and gave me a clearer insight into why I was having such intense um feelings and uh I would say over-identification with my feelings of shame and worthlessness.
SPEAKER_05Okay. So, what's the difference between self-esteem and self-compassion?
SPEAKER_00Okay, so the way that she describes it is self-esteem is a judgment of our character as a person.
SPEAKER_06Okay.
SPEAKER_00So self-esteem all has to do with outward achievements and how my goodness as a person gets tied to my achievements and compliment and accomplishments as a person. So that means if I'm succeeding, if my job's going really well, I've got a nice house that I'm really pleased with, my relationship is going well, things outside of me, as long as those things are all going well, my sense of self-esteem inflates.
SPEAKER_05So it's more of a social construct.
SPEAKER_00It's relational, yeah. It's me compared to you. And in American culture, to have high self-esteem, we have to feel like we are above average or better than the people around us.
SPEAKER_05And if we're not, then we hate them.
SPEAKER_00Right. Well, no, sorry, I said right before I actually heard what you said.
SPEAKER_05Don't mind me. Don't mind me.
SPEAKER_00You're not, you're not necessarily wrong because it does, it does create this feeling of isolation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00This feeling of I need to be separate and above. And so my experiences need to be separate from other people. Um and I'll I'll get to that sense of isolation in a minute.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00So that so that self-esteem, yeah, um, it's it's your self-worth is conditional. Self-compassion or practicing self-compassion is unconditional. The the foundation behind self-compassion is that you as a human being on this earth are intrinsically valuable exactly as you are right now.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Mike That's it.
SPEAKER_02That's it.
SPEAKER_00That's it. Yeah. But I mean, believe it or not, like believing that or practicing that as a core belief, at least for me, is incredibly challenging. Oh, yeah. Because there are so many elements of our culture that want us attach, that want us to attach our self-worth to how much money we have and how many people like us and things that are frankly mostly out of our control.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and um it's interesting because even if you start, well, I'll speak for myself, if I start engaging in some self-compassion and trying to recognize my intrinsic value, as you say, I quickly get distracted and start doing comparison.
SPEAKER_06Yes.
SPEAKER_05To how I could be or should be or somebody else, how what would they think? You know, yes. I know these people don't like me as I am. Yes, they don't seem to. So you my mind will wander off and get just go down the wrong track.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's a practiced habitual state of mind. So what I realized after listening to that TED talk is that I actually have really strong self-esteem. Um, but that self-esteem all kind of relied on external attributes that I had left behind. So in the process, yeah, there it is.
SPEAKER_05Oh, so you left all your uh external cues to your esteem back here, and you showed up in a new place that has no smells, no bad stress. But after you watched your cat pee for 45 minutes, you said, uh oh. Now what? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Now what? Exactly. And I found myself in a theatrical environment in a culture and a community that had no, there was no history, no sense of um, no sense of support. Um, I had put my theater company into hibernation. So I didn't even have this thing of like, oh yeah, I run a theater company and it's done XYZ. Yeah. Um even my house, right? Left behind our house and moved into this little flat. Um, so I really, I really began to realize how deeply I had depended on um external validation to feel like I belonged. This is interesting.
SPEAKER_05So you you did this radical move, which really brings all this kind of these this dissonance into sharp relief and this uh feel realizing that you but uh I guess I'm wondering this pr pretty similar for people who suddenly uh lose their job or are isolating because of a pandemic, or you know, um have a baby or lose a loved one, you know, like some major shift, and all of a sudden all the little threads that you kind of cling to for your self-esteem, uh you can find yourself with no threads.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05So that's where you were.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_05Okay, yeah. So then what happened?
SPEAKER_00How did you so I fell apart and I'm speaking to you from no um it's a frozen head situation?
SPEAKER_03I'm talking to the oh man, cryogenics.
SPEAKER_05I knew the first time I met you, I said, This person needs to be frozen. Okay, so you you you listened to the TED talk and you got inspired.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. So I I realized I had pretty good self-esteem, but I had almost no uh basis or understanding of how to practice self-compassion. Um, so I did what any good student does. I bought her book.
SPEAKER_05Sheet. Oh, you bought a book.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I bought a couple of books on compassion and self-compassion, and um started reading, and then I started trying to practice what I was reading.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Uh so I would, so I I had already had a couple of anxiety attacks in class. And so I knew that being in class was a pretty um, could be a pretty destabilizing environment for me. So I uh I started trying to think about what Dr. Kristen Neff describes as like the three core elements of self-compassion. Okay, and how how I could take those and turn them into something that I could embody, um, something that I could like physically do um when I felt myself move into that comparison mindset, like you were talking about, or felt myself people pleasing, or felt um, as Brene Brown calls it, the warm wash of shame. Wow uh when you feel, when you're feeling particularly like you don't belong.
SPEAKER_05That sounds good and bad.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's well, it's it's I like the way she describes it because it's a very physical sensation. Yeah. And I think sometimes these concepts can get very heady. So I always think it's really important to for me, because I am a kinesthetic, meaning a body movement learner. Right. Um, I learn best by figuring out how to make it into a physical, tangible thing.
SPEAKER_05Okay. So you identify these three core principles or aspects.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And wouldn't you know one of them is mindfulness.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So there I am. Haven't wandered too far from the track. Um so in terms of mindfulness, what she talks about is um mindfulness uh is at its core awareness, right? So mindfulness is the is the thing that allows us to interrupt the train of thought when we're hooked on that train of thought of like, I don't belong here, I'm not good enough, she's better than me, et cetera. Mindfulness is just the thing that unhooks. Can I just witness this state of being?
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00Can I just can I allow these thoughts to exist, but can I just watch them instead of feeding them? The second element of self-compassion is kindness. And kindness just refers to speaking to ourselves kindly, like literally just that. And the way Dr. Kristen Neff frames it is um thinking about talking to ourselves the way that we would talk to a good friend or a pet or a loved one, because we are often much harsher with ourselves than we are with other people.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, if a friend comes to you and says, I'm feeling a little down, you know, I don't feel like I'm doing well at work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Or I'm just really down on myself, you wouldn't say, Well, the reason you're not doing well at work is because you're a loser.
SPEAKER_00Right. But we do say that to ourselves.
SPEAKER_05We do exactly. That's exactly what we say.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um, okay. So those so mindfulness to get yourself tuned in to what you're actually experiencing.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And then kindness, approaching yourself with kindness as you would another person who was um suffering.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00And then the last one, this one has kind of kind of become my favorite. Um, this the last one is common humanity.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And she talks about common humanity as um reminding that our imperfection as humans is shared. So exactly what your podcast is trying to do, Ross. This sense of shared experience, shared imperfection, this experience that you're having, you're not alone. You are not the first person to have this experience, and you won't be the last. And especially in the theater, right? This sense of like, I need to stand out from everybody in order to make it in this industry. And um so instead, I am exploring and researching the ways that practicing a shared sense of humanity, a shared sense of we're all in this together, right? Um can actually ease, ease up on our anxiety, our perfectionism, and allow us to be more present and actually to do better work because we're allowing ourselves to make mistakes and learn from them.
SPEAKER_05So, wow, a lot of things uh that's um stimulating a lot of thoughts. Uh one thought is that the that last one, which you called common humanity, is that what you called it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So um is a way to then make it a so uh to bring it back to a social construct that's less comparative and more of a recognition of, as you say, the fact that everyone is in one way or another in the same space.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_05And that we're all in the space of imperfection and we're all sharing that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I love the way you put that, Ross, that we're just in the space of imperfection.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, but that's just what what hit me because I was when we were talking about self-esteem, and I said it's a social construct, and that self-compassion sounds like something which is more actually um isolating, but in a good way, but it seemed a little hollow. But when you brought in that last idea, now I see how it kind of flips the negativity of our um of the external world, the the world that's external to us, or what I'm calling the social world. Um, it flips that to being a uh reaffirming sort of idea, if I'm stumbling to that right place. So that was that's really fascinating to me. The other thing that's really surprising about what you just said is that you know what this podcast is about because you're the first person to think that they know what we're doing.
SPEAKER_00Because I mean, I couldn't, I could be wrong, but even in your intro, right? It's all about like all the things that that we share that make us tick. The what do you say? The the weirdness, the yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's not about saying people are weird, it's about saying we're all doing something strange. Exactly. We're all struggling, we're all in the same sp um, what did I call it? The space of imperfection.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05We're sharing that space together. That's what the pot. It is it is about that. And then the last thing that surprised me about the list. So let's go over the list: mindfulness, kindness, common humanity. And I was expecting there would be a fourth thing, and the fourth thing was going to be gambling.
SPEAKER_00Yes, the key to self-compassion is losing all your money.
SPEAKER_05So um, I imagine um, and I've done some reading on this topic. I know that surprises you, but I was surprised by all these claimed benefits when we practice self-compassion, like uh stress reduction and um the ability to cope with otherwise traumatic or difficult situations like divorce or pain, chronic pain, or some sort of trauma, or moving to London, for example. Um and apparently research shows that people who practice self-compassion tend to uh be healthier, tend to exercise more, um, eat better, drink less, um, take responsibility for their lives. There's all these claimed interesting benefits. And so what I'm curious about is I get I get the I get the idea of it and I like it. But how hard is it to develop that muscle, I'm wondering.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what a really good question.
SPEAKER_05I'm still working on the mindfulness muscle, you know, I'm still working on that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. I mean, that's the thing is you can spend so I for my final uh I taught a 20-minute class that took that just looked at common humanity, like only looked at that one element and explored how we might embody common humanity for actors. And viewpoints technique um is really meant to bring actors back into their bodies and to help them um essentially to connect to each other in a space and learn how to respond as one, as a group.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, so I thought that's kind of like a perfect framework for exploring this very conceptual idea of uh we all we're all we're all in this together, this this sense of connectedness.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, so in my class, we did a couple of exercises from viewpoints where I asked the actors to um shift into a peripheral focus, uh, or it's also called a soft focus, um, and then to try to jump all together at exactly the same time with no one leading and no one following.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00And then talked about this process of how do I trust? How do I trust that if I'm experiencing an impulse to jump, that everyone else is also experiencing that impulse? Or even if no one else is experiencing that impulse, how do I trust that the group has my back? That we're all trying to do the same thing. So even if they don't experience it, once they see me move, they'll move with me.
SPEAKER_02Right. Yeah. That's a cool exercise.
SPEAKER_00Thanks. Yeah. And then again, like the thing that I like about that is that instead of um, you know, sometimes you can read a book and be like, oh, great, well, common humanity. I'll just believe it.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Instead, instead of trying to figure out like, how do I take this conceptual idea and put it in my body? The beautiful thing about actor training is it it is very physical. Um, and so my goal has been to try to figure out how to take um conceptualized concepts and to make them both accessible and uh embodied in some way.
SPEAKER_05So how um so I have two questions. Um one is how was it received by the class?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I think it was received really well. Um I had some folks come up to me afterward and say, uh, had had one person come up to me and say, Oh my gosh, I think I need to, I need to look at self-compassion for myself. Um and that they they understand it in a way that they hadn't understood it before, which I take no credit for that. That is all the work of Dr. Kristen Neff. Like I think her work is um groundbreaking. Um but I also had a lot of folks that really enjoyed the process of putting it in their bodies and um and yeah.
SPEAKER_05You know, it's um it's it's interesting because every single person who's walking around right now, no matter what their situation, is um struggling with self-compassion. Every single person. And what a gift to remind people that that everyone is doing that. But in the world, you walk around and we're all wearing our masks and we're all engaged in our things that we do, and it's all hard to recognize that people, everyone.
SPEAKER_00We're posting our our best selves on social media.
SPEAKER_05Oh yeah. Yeah, the best selves. Talk about talk about social comparison. Wow, that social comparison on cat litter.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Um so um, so the so what I want to kind of end with, because this is really fascinating, because this is a time more than any uh than any other where it makes sense to be really thinking about how much self-compassion you practice in your daily life and how how effectively you can do that, because there are these apparent benefits that any of us would want. Um, so I want to know. So you've you've been focused on this, and this has sort of opened a new window for you. And that's one of the cool things about following a path and following your passion is you don't always know where it's going. You just keep opening the next door.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And you're just kind of following. And the key is just to keep moving and keep following that passion, that spark, whatever it is. And it may lead you to different things that you didn't imagine before, but that's all part of it. That's that's exactly what you should be doing. So that's what you've been doing, and that's exciting and great. Where do you think it is? Where do you think you are now? Like as you've been starting to explore this, and I assume you've been trying to practice self-compassion in your own life. Have you noticed any differences?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, I I I should be clear, I started practicing self-compassion because I felt like I was drowning.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right. I it it really was a well, I need there's gotta be something, and I'd really prefer not to drink or uh do some of the other things that um can help us dissociate.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, I I think the best um I think when I actually knew it was working was the very last day of term, which is saying something, right? That means that for three months I just sort of kept doing this thing, going, don't know if it's working, but we're just gonna keep trying.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00That I was spending 75% of the class just trying to stay out of my own head, um, just trying to stay present, to stop comparing myself to everybody in the class, um, to stop worrying about what the teacher thought of me, um, worrying about what I was gonna say or do next. I was just, it was just a struggle just to be there. Right. Um and then, you know, and then some days I would succeed, and some days I would collapse and cry really hard and be with that and uh get up and do it again. But the last day of term, um, it was it was our it was our final, I was teaching that day. Um, and I just remember arriving at class and I'm watching uh my other cohort members uh do their final teaches. And I know their story at this point now, right? Like I've watched them grow and struggle, and um, and I've been comparing myself to them all quarter. And as I'm watching them, I realize that like I've got this big grin on my face, and I'm kind of tearing up a little bit. And I had this moment I was like, I am really present right now, like I am here, I am here and nowhere else. And I had this like swelling of pride watching them work. Uh uh uh the I I think the way I would describe it is like I've had compassion and love and admiration for my fellow students and for you know various other people in my life, but I've I've never quite experienced the quality of it in this way. The quality of my compassion in that moment was so full-hearted. And I remember checking my thoughts and being like, okay, like where's where's comparison? Where's the perfectionist? Where's the critic? And I'll be honest, it's not like they were completely gone. Like they were there, but they were quiet. They were just quiet.
SPEAKER_05Is it fair to say that if you practice unconditional compassion, self-compassion, that you become more unconditional with your compassion for others?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I'm so glad you phrased it that way. Because I thought you were gonna say gambling.
SPEAKER_03No.
SPEAKER_00Well, if I practice self-compassion, will I become more compassionate for others? Uh but the particular way that you phrased it, if I practice unconditional self-compassion, will my compassion for others become more unconditional? Yes.
SPEAKER_05Yes, absolutely. Wow. Because that's what it sounds like that's what happened, that's what's happening right now. Yes, with you.
SPEAKER_00I think the quality, the quality of your compassion shifts.
SPEAKER_05Um that is a really exciting idea for me to think about, and hopefully for others too, because that that feeling of being totally present, but also sort of just brimming with unconditional um regard and compassion for the people that you're spending time with, in this case in a class, but it could be anybody. Um anywhere, people you know, people you don't know, that that feeling, especially these days when there's so much apparent darkness, the fact that you can experience that seems exciting to me and um noteworthy, you know, for me personally, but I think maybe others will feel the same way. Like, yeah, that's missing for me.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I want to feel like that more often. Because you can't feel like that every moment, but if you can have more moments like that, that's really exciting. Wow, this is great. I didn't expect to feel so good at the end of this.
SPEAKER_00I'm so glad. Yeah, that's what I'm here for. I'm just here for the good feelings.
SPEAKER_05Everybody, I I think anytime I'm around you, I learn something new. And uh, this is no no no different. Well, um, it's been great having you. So thanks so much. A delight, actually. And um, everyone is rooting for you, no matter where they are in the world right now, listening to this episode. Everyone's rooting for Caitlin. And so uh we're all sharing that common humanity with you. And I will thank all of those people listening for joining us for this episode. And if you like what we're doing, and if you're like Caitlin and you've actually figured out what we're doing, uh we would love you to help us. And the best way you can do that is to share the show with anyone you think might like it, any way you can. So social media or direct email or word of mouth, that really, really helps us. We're completely independent. You might have noticed we have no sponsors. Um, so anything you can do to help us is great. You can also support us on Patreon. Go in, I can smell like it. And we hope you will tune in to another episode because whether you are trying to smuggle drugs through an airport or just timing your cat while it goes to the bathroom to see if it's setting a record, it's important to remember that we all smell like humans. Not in London. There's no fat smells there. Goodbye, everybody.